The word of God makes it clear to us that abortion is not a sin.

by Abaddon 60 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    The word of God makes it clear to us that abortion is not a sin. In fact it's quite clear that to believe otherwise is nothing short of idolatry and blasphemy, and those are, quite definitely, sins.

    Psalm 139 and the Beginning of Life


    One of the most beautiful chapters in the Bible is Psalms 139. It speaks of God's constant, practically doting, love for his creation. It is distressing to see this chapter used by anti-abortionists as proof that life begins at conception. If you read the chapter in its entirety it becomes clear that our existence begins in the mind of God and that God's attentions follow us all of our days, through good and bad. Here are the verses that anti-abortionists use to twist this beautiful chapter to a common political tool:

    For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works: and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

    Psalms 139:13-16

    These verses are used to prove that human life begins at conception. But there is nothing here to even suggest that. God conceives of us first. We read that a blueprint, of sorts, exists in a book, God's book. Before we are born God uses this to form our bodies. Nowhere here does this describe anything but the making of the human form. Nowhere here does it describe how we are imbued with a human soul. But there are numerous other places in the Bible where God makes it quite clear when and how we become a living being and not just an "imperfect substance" as mentioned in Psalms 139.

    Consider first, Genesis 2:7,

    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

    First, God forms Adam, he forms of dust, a flesh and blood body. SECOND, he "breathes into his nostrils the breath of life" and THEN man became a living soul. Man did not become a living soul when God first formed the IDEA of creating Adam, in Genesis 1:26. Man did not become a living soul when God created his BODY. Not until God gave man his first BREATH did he become a living soul. Life comes from God. It does not come from human conception. To believe that the entry of a sperm into an egg constitutes a human soul is blasphemy. To believe this is to eject God from the mystery of birth and put the power of the male ejaculation above the generative power of God. It is nothing less than idolatry, elevating the status of mere man, his sperm and his ejaculation above the power of God to give life.

    The verses in Genesis are not the only verses in the Bible to make this clear. Consider Job 33:44

    The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

    Consider the story of Ezekial and the dry bones, Ezekial 37:1-6,

    The hand of the Lord was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley; it was full of bones. And he led me round among them; and behold, there were very many upon the valley; and lo, they were very dry. And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord God, thou knowest." Again he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, 'O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause BREATH TO ENTER YOU, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and PUT BREATH IN YOU, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.' (emphases mine)

    Just like Adam, who had a body before he had a soul, like every fetus in the womb, these dry bones were given sinew, flesh and skin, and AFTER they received the body GOD breathed into them and THEN they became alive. And, as in the verses above, because of that we "know that [God] is the Lord." Only God can bestow life and he tells us again and again in his word how this is done.

    There is no trickery here. God does not breathe through an umbilical cord. We receive the breath of life, from God, through the nostrils, when we take our first breath. The concept of life beginning at birth, rather than conception, is so central to Christianity that we are "born again," not "conceived again."

    Psalm 139 and the Beginning of Life


    Why doesn't the Bible say anything directly about abortion? Why didn't Jesus dedicate his crusade against the practice as many of his modern day followers have? Did women have abortions in Biblical times? Yes. The Bible tells us so. Many anti-abortionists feel that the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill," covers the abortion issue. But in Mosaic law God covers the exceptions to this law, indicating quite clearly who may be killed and for what offense. For instance, if a man or woman has sex with an animal or commits adultery they must be killed. Does "Thou shalt not kill" apply to abortion? No. Miscarriage or abortion is an exception. Let's look at Exodus 21:22

    "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

    In this instance a woman has been so injured, in a fight between two men, that she has aborted. The law states that if "no harm follows" the outsider must pay the husband a fine. An abortion has been induced through violence and this is not considered harmful. Abortion, then, is not a capital offense or a violation of the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill."

    Does anyone know where in the Bible a prophet of God calls upon God to induce abortions in the wives of his enemies? Let's look at Hosea 9:14.

    Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb (an abortion) and dry breasts.

    And later,

    ...yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

    Hosea 9:16

    In this case God causes abortions, the prophet prays that these women will abort. If these are truly innocent children, how could God do this? But they are not, they are "miscarrying wombs," "unperfect substances" and God will prevent them from becoming human souls that will grow up to oppress his people.

    What if Mary had Decided to Abort Jesus?


    Many people are surprised to learn that God gave Mary a choice concerning her pregnancy with the future Savior. In the gospel of Luke the angel came to her announcing what the will of God was for her life. In verse 1:38 Mary replies, "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." Mary gives her assent. To believe that Mary had no voice in the process is unthinkable, for that would mean that God forced Himself on (raped) an unwed, teenaged virgin. Mary chose to be the mother of our Savior. God honored her ability to make that choice.

    Conclusion


    Abortion is not a sin, though blasphemy and idolatry are. To say that human copulation (which the Bible calls unclean) has the power to bestow life is blasphemy. No mere act of man can negate the fact that only God bestows life, by giving the fully formed body, breath. Asserting that human life begins at conception is counter to the claims of the word of God and is a sin. It is doubly a sin because this debased belief leads others to sin. Those that kill clinic workers, harass clients and attempt to legislate this wayward belief lead innocent believers down a road to murder and depravity.

    Follow the example of Jesus, let those that want Christ come to you. Do not force the grace of God on anyone. God has the power, not only to give life, but to save. As Paul says in Galatians 2:21,

    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    More Bible straight talk from Miss Poppy Dixon at http://www.jesus21.com/

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I myself feel that rights result from sentience. Defining that moment in the developement of the fetus will probably be a difficult task but it most certainly is not at conception. Genetic "Potential" is not a valid premise for granting human rights for cells as is often argued by prolife folks. But aside from these opinions I wanted to comment on Ps 139:16. The phrase often translated to suggest the Psamist "parts" were not yet formed is actually a mistranslation or at best a alternative to the Psamists "days" not having yet happened but known to the creator. ( I have checked 4 translations and they word this correctly) In other words the writer like many Jews believed in fate. Also this could then be used to support your arguement that the Psalmists life had not yet begun when he was in the womb. I however feel the subject is far too important to let our judgement be clouded by an antique book.

  • RAYZORBLADE
    RAYZORBLADE

    Dunno folks: how many pages do you think this one will go?

    Sorry to hijack the thread Abaddon (good post).

    I just finished with the 'other' one. It's in a state of redundancy over there.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Nice twist of perspective. I think I'll send a slightly modified version of this out to all the witnesses I know, with an inference that this is "new light" coming their way, and since it's sooo shocking, they need to prayerfully consider their attitude and heart condition. Mix things up a bit, eh wot?

  • Satanus
    Satanus
    "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

    Seems clear enough. No counter arguements from anyone, i see. 'Course, if i was a father, i might not agree w what the bible says here.

    SS

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped
    Abaddon said:
    "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

    In this instance a woman has been so injured, in a fight between two men, that she has aborted. The law states that if "no harm follows" the outsider must pay the husband a fine. An abortion has been induced through violence and this is not considered harmful. Abortion, then, is not a capital offense or a violation of the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill."

    First, I'm not sure what Translation you posted, but it does not read the same in the Translations I use:

    Exodus 21:22-23:

    King James Version: If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

    New King James Version: "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

    21st Century King James Version: "If men strive and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no misfortune follow, he shall be surely punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any misfortune follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

    Modern King James Version: If men strive and strike a pregnant woman, so that her child comes out, and there is no injury, he shall surely be punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him. And he shall pay as the judges say. And if any injury occurs, then you shall give life for life,

    1898 Young's Literal Translation: `And when men strive, and have smitten a pregnant woman, and her children have come out, and there is no mischief, he is certainly fined, as the husband of the woman doth lay upon him, and he hath given through the judges; and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,

    The Literal Translation of the Holy Bible: And when men fight, and they strike a pregnant woman, and her child goes forth, and there is no injury, being fined he shall be fined. As much as the husband of the woman shall put on him, even he shall give through the judges. But if injury occurs, you shall give life for life,

    1901 American Standard Version: And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow; he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

    1889 Darby Bible: And if men strive together, and strike a woman with child, so that she be delivered, and no mischief happen, he shall in any case be fined, according as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and shall give it as the judges estimate. But if mischief happen, then thou shalt give life for life,

    World English Bible: "If men fight and hurt a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, and yet no harm follows, he shall be surely fined as much as the woman's husband demands and the judges allow. But if any harm follows, then you must take life for life,

    1833 Webster Bible: If men shall contend, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit shall depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief shall follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

    GOD'S WORD Translation: "This is what you must do whenever men fight and injure a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely. If there are no other injuries, the offender must pay whatever fine the court allows the woman's husband to demand. If anyone is injured, the offender must pay a life for a life,

    New International Version (NIV): "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

    New American Standard Bible (NASB): "If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

    New Living Translation: "Now suppose two people are fighting, and in the process, they hurt a pregnant woman so her child is born prematurely. If no further harm results, then the person responsible must pay damages in the amount the woman's husband demands and the judges approve. But if any harm results, then the offender must be punished according to the injury. If the result is death, the offender must be executed.

    English Standard Version: "When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life,

    Third Millennium Bible: "If men strive and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no misfortune follow, he shall be surely punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any misfortune follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

    New Century Version: "Suppose two men are fighting and hit a pregnant woman, causing the baby to come out. If there is no further injury, the man who caused the accident must pay money -- whatever amount the woman's husband says and the court allows. But if there is further injury, then the punishment that must be paid is life for life,
    ________________________________________________________

    So, according to those Bible Translations, which most Christians use, if the unborn baby was killed, the person who killed the unborn baby was to be put to death.

    It seems to me that only the really Modern Translations are the ones that try to make it appear that abortion is okay.

    So, if you are going to kill unborn babies, you certainly cannot do so with the approval of those Bible Translations I posted.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Abaddon said:

    Why didn't Jesus dedicate his crusade against the practice as many of his modern day followers have? Did women have abortions in Biblical times? Yes. The Bible tells us so.

    Jesus also did not specifically forbid child molestation.

    So, are you implying that Jesus was endorsing and condoning child molestation?

    Also, according to your beliefs, what is the exact moment when a baby becomes a living human being?

    At birth? So, does that mean, according to you, it is perfectly okay to kill a baby in the womb 5 minutes before it would have been born?

    Also, is it okay then to partially deliver the baby, but then intentionally leave part of the baby's body inside the mother, and then rip the brains out of the baby?

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Also, notice this Verse:

    Job 10:18: Why then have You brought me from the womb? Oh that I had given up the spirit, and no eye had seen me!

    Job said that he wished he had given up his spirit when he was inside the womb!

    That means God had already placed Job's spirit/soul inside of Job when he was inside the womb!

    Jeremiah 20:17-18: because he did not kill me from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me. Why did I come forth from the womb to see labor and sorrow, that my days should be consumed in shame?

    According to Jeremiah, babies are alive inside the womb.

    Luke 1:15: For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall neither drink wine nor strong drink. And he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.

    John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while in the womb -- and yet, according to Abaddon, John wasn't even a living human being inside the womb???

    Luke 1:44: For lo, as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

    John the Baptist, called a babe [or child], leaped for joy inside the womb, and yet, according to Abaddon, John wasn't even a living human being inside the womb???

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    Well trying to answer the question from the Bible - something I stopped doing when I left the borg.

    But if you want my thoughts...

    I think life only exists by virtue of the complexity of a biological system. We have the illusion of feelings and senses which are really just electro-chemical impulses and we have self-awareness which again is just an illusion.

    This complexity is not formed at conception where there exists just one cell. Although that one cell contains the DNA and therefore the blueprint to build that complexity (has the potential for life) it has no self awareness or senses... it is impossible for a single cell to perform complex functions which involve one part of your body "talking" to another.

    Where you could exactly pin point the start of life I don't know, and I guess it varies every time.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    undisfellowshipped...Again this discussion illustrates that Bible writers had differing views about the value of the unborn. None of these verses can be said to prohibit abortion.

    At best the one in Ex. can be made to appear to say this by overlaying it with modern sentiment about what constitutes "furthur injury". Some interpret it to be saying no injury to the woman beyond the ending of her pregnancy, while others interpret it to mean the infant was born premature but unharmed. The latter seems to ignore that the wording does not say "gave birth" but came out,expelled or left a lower place(ie womb). It does not even use the word for "came out" used at Genesis 25:25 that described a birth. The idea that the husband could fine the attacker for losses if the baby and mother were unharmed is without premise. This fining for damages only makes sense if the fetus was expelled/aborted but the mother survived.

    Rather than make the verse say what modern readers want to hear the version that was originally posted is most consistant with the wording and context of Jewish law.


    The Jeremiah story (1:4) is likewise (same as Ps 139) an expression of predestination. No free will is possible if a person's destiny is determned before his birth (or before developement in the womb for that matter).


    This consistant with the Esau and Jacob legend where in the author has God declaring blessing and favor on one over the other before birth.
    (Gen25:23)


    These passages were written for reasons unrelated to the abortion question and were said the way they were to emhasize the greatness of the God they worshipped (ability to see future) not how greatly he valued fetuses.

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