I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • truthlover123

    Thats interesting.. did u know they are still using it? There is a myriad of properties in UK and link to Greece properties on site - someone reported it months ago... they are listed under I.B.S.A. owners with the real estate firm, their lawyers house was one up for sale along with all types of homes and apartment buildings, etc. the badge showing at the bottom of the page though was JW.ORG.....must be a billioin in sales

  • JoenB75

    The import of the name Jehovah into the NWT was obviously designed to further lower Jesus. The name of Jesus is above all (Philippians 2:9), Jesus is appointed heir of all things (Hebrews 1:2). Jehovah / Yahweh is a historical name we should only concern ourselves with if and when we study the old testament. There is a new one.

  • cofty

    Another interesting angle is the references to early Christians 'calling on' the name of Jesus. Interestingly the old song books contained many songs addressed to Jesus.

    From the article Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church...


    7] Early Christians CALLED ON THE NAME of Jesus

    When Jesus appeared to Ananias, Ananias said to him that Saul had authority;
    'to put in bonds all those calling upon your name.' - Acts 9:14

    After Saul's conversion those who heard him preach were astonished and said;
    'Is this not the man that ravaged those in Jerusalem who call upon this name.' - Acts 9:21

    Paul described the Christians at Corinth as being among those;
    'Who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ their Lord and ours.' - 1Cor.1:2

    That Christians would speak about calling on the name of Jesus is truly remarkable when we consider the Old Testament background to this expression.

    When Jehovah appeared to Abraham in the land of Canaan
    'He built an altar there to Jehovah and began to call on the name of Jehovah.' - Gen.12:8

    When Elijah challenged the prophets of Baal to a showdown he said;
    'You must call upon the name of your god and I for my part shall call upon the name of Jehovah.' - 1Kings 18:24

    When Naaman went to Elisha seeking a cure from leprosy he expected Elisha to;
    'Stand and call upon the name of Jehovah his God.' - 2Kings 5:11

    The Psalmist Asaph implored Jehovah to;
    'Preserve us alive that we may call upon your own name.' - Ps.80:18

    Through the prophet Zephaniah Jehovah promised to;
    'Give the peoples a change to a pure language in order for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah.' - Zeph.3:9

    Regarding the faithful remnant of the Jews, Jehovah inspired Zechariah to prophesy that he would refine them and;
    'It for it's part will call upon my name and I for my part will answer it. I will say, it is my people, and it for its part will say Jehovah is my God.' - Zech.13:9

    For an Old Testament Jew 'calling on the name' of Jehovah involved aspects of prayer and worship, and yet the early Christians called upon the name of Jesus Christ. It is impossible that a Jehovah's Witness would even think about calling on the name of Jesus in the same sense.

    It is undeniable that the organisation has shifted massively in terms of its attitude towards Jesus since Russell's day.

  • cofty

    Joen - Jesus did not replace Yahweh.

    Jehovah was the 'God and Father of Jesus'. Jesus worshipped and obeyed the father and taught his followers to do likewise and to observe the Law God gave through Jesus.

  • JoenB75


    Jesus is appointed heir of all things and creation is commanded to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. So I would say the revelation of Jesus replaces the revelation of Jehovah / Yahweh. I suggest we do like the angels and worship this new mode / revelation of God (Hebrews 1:6).

  • Anna Marina
    Anna Marina

    By taking the name Jehovah's Witnesses they link themselves to the House of Jacob.

    (Isaiah 43:1-10) 43 And now this is what Jehovah has said, your Creator, O Jacob, and your Former, O Israel: ....10 “YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen. . .

    It is clever. By attacking them, you could be accused of anti-semitism.

    Jesus as the Messiah certainly was the greatest from the House of Jacob. People don't think that anti-semitism means attacking Christians. But once you bring Jesus into the equasion, when you attack the faithful ones of the House of Jacob, you are attacking those who point to Jesus Christ.

  • cofty
    I would say the revelation of Jesus replaces the revelation of Jehovah - Joen

    That is because you read the bible through the lens of modern evangelical Protestant Christianity.

    What exactly did Jesus - the Jewish Messiah - reveal?

  • JoenB75


    Sure, to an extent. I do not play a first century Jew. I do not believe there is an issue in that the Jesus of the gospels was only send to Israel but would later draw all men to himself . The old covenant nation no longer exists. Jesus came to warn them of their impending doom. Jesus is heir to all things, the angels worship him and his chief apostle is Paul

  • slimboyfat

    The language of the NT is striking, and different from how JWs normally talk, there is no doubt about that. And the phrase “call upon the name” does seem particularly important.

    And yet, the idea that the name Jesus replaced Jehovah, or that Jesus is Lord in the same sense as Jehovah does not sit well with the text either. There are many scriptures that are simply incompatible with this view.

    Jesus is called Lord frequently in the book of Acts, but does the author understand Jesus to be Lord in the same sense that God is Lord? Clearly not.

    When scripture containing the divine name is quoted, Jesus is not equated with Jehovah but distinguished from him.

    Acts 2:34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’

    Jesus is here identified as the Messianic Lord in the line of David, and is distinguished from Jehovah God.

    Acts 2:36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”

    Jesus was made Lord by God. It was a position given to him. This Lordship is clearly a different kind of Lordship from Jehovah God. Indeed Acts makes it plain, not that Jesus was God, but that God worked through Jesus.

    Acts 10:38 about Jesus who was from Nazʹa·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil, because God was with him.

    Jesus is the name given among men to save mankind. This makes more sense when we bear in mind what Jesus’ name means and how the early Christians understood it. Consider this passage as the early Christians would have read it bearing in mind the importance of the meaning of Jesus’ name.

    Acts 4:10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that in the name of Jesus (Jehovah Saves) Christ the Naz·a·reneʹ, whom you executed on a stake but whom God raised up from the dead, by means of him this man stands here healthy in front of you. This is ‘the stone that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the chief cornerstone.’ Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”

    The repeated link between the name Jesus and Jehovah bringing salvation is no coincidence. The first Christians were very much aware that the name Jesus drew attention to salvation by Jehovah through the messiah. What might sound like attention to Jesus and away from God, in its original context drew attention to the fact that Jehovah saves by means of Jesus.

    Acts 15:14 Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, known from of old.’

    This passage does seem to talk about calling a people from the nations for Jehovah’s name. Not Jesus, but Jehovah, “known from of old”.

  • cofty

    SBF I agree - totally and unequivocally.

    (better take a note of the URL for that post - it might never happen again)

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