Good points are made here. As Ozzie points out, it is faith that comes first, and as noted by DJ and Oz, works become a natural outcropping of that faith. But one needs to be careful that works simply do not become some way to try earning everlasting life or God's favor. And I think as Oz rightly points out, this is wherte the jw religion stumbles, for it indeed appears to be a religion based on works, or at least where works get the emphasis.
WTS says faith is not enough! (Worship Bk chap 8)
by ozziepost 19 Replies latest watchtower bible
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plmkrzy
am I stuttering
I tried to edit my bad grammar but failed.
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A Paduan
It said that "faith without works is dead" People say they have faith, but it sounds like if you want to establish that, look at the fruit.
There's good fruit, no fruit, and bad tasting fruit - taste and see.
Seems like a basic concept.
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ozziepost
We, who have experienced the Borg, understand that the "What else?" question is simply a precursor to the whole range of requirements to remain a "loyal Witness", things like always having to qualify, keeping "regular in service" etc etc. That's the thrust of what the above quoted words of chapter 8 are about. As I've said before, a Witness is only as good as their last report.
Cheers, Ozzie
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IslandWoman
Are there "works" which must be performed by a Christian in order to get life?
Also, while "faith without works is dead", can the same be said for "works without faith?" In other words, if a non-believer performs a ton of good works for their fellowman are they saved because of those works though they do not put faith in Jesus? Or are they dead? Is "works without faith also dead?"
IW
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ozziepost
Are there "works" which must be performed by a Christian in order to get life?
No. The text is stating that works will naturally flow from faith. If we were to describe such a person in the past tense we might say that their faith without works is dead.
It seems to me as I look around, and read, that cults and sects are prone to institute works as a sign of membership. To me, the WTS is just like that. It has its membership rules and requirements.
Cheers, Ozzie
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IslandWoman
Hi Ozzie,
I would would very much like to hear your opinion on the second part of my post:
Also, while "faith without works is dead", can the same be said for "works without faith?" In other words, if a non-believer performs a ton of good works for their fellowman are they saved because of those works though they do not put faith in Jesus? Or are they dead? Is "works without faith also dead?"
Thank you,
Linda
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ozziepost
G'day Linda,
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that works will never "save" anybody. Recall the text "Lord, did we not etc etc in you name?" Jesus' reply was along the lines of "Get away, you workers of lawlessness!" So the works that any do, like the dubs, can never give them eternal life.
How does this impact on our lives? Mrs Ozzie and I are embarked on a campaign of helping people in the Third World that could be described as "good works" but there's no way that we consider that makes us better (or worse) than anybody else. It's simply a natural result of what we feel in our hearts. If we did it, or didn't do it, has nothing to do with getting life.
well, that's my opinion, anyway.
Cheers, Ozzie
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ClassAvenger
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16. In my opinion, it's that simple. You believe in him, you have eternal life. In my opinion, if you really believe in him, then you'll do good works automatically, it just comes to you. By good works I do not mean preaching the Word of God from one corner of the earth to the other, but just doing what is right when you know you should. What do Jehovah Witnesses teach about John 3:16, that only they really believe in him?
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ClassAvenger
I've been reading the bible and found some passages relating to this issue. First, I would like to point out something that Martin Luther said describing the whole deal: One is saved by faith on its own, but if the faith stays alone, then it is not faith. He is just basically saying that if you have faith, you will automatically do "good works" that go with it. But, if faith stays alone, then it is not really faith. My pastor at church said that there are some people that go to church all their life, doing good works, and believing they will enter heaven, but that in their hearts they really didn't believe in Christ. He says that these people are the hardest to save. Well, anyways, I would like to give some bible passages that support the whole deal.
-Romans 3:22, Romans 3:28, Romans 3:31, Romans 9:30-31
- Galatians 2:16, Galatians 2:21, Galatians 3:10-11, Galatians 3:28, Galatians 5:5-6.
JWs say that in James 2:14 it says that people need to have works in order to be saved. James is a very controversial book of the bible because it seems like he is contradicting Paul. In reality, the whole point is that James is saying that if you have faith, your works will come with it, and your works will show your faith. Like in the quote above stated by Martin Luther says, if faith is alone, then it is not faith.