Confronting Parents About 607 vs 587

by breezy 23 Replies latest jw experiences

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  breezy

  Just thought i would update you guys since my 1st post last week.
  
  I haven't been to the meeting for about 2 weeks now, and maybe have like 1 or 2 hours of service combined within the past 2-3 months. I obviously get the love bombing from relatives when they don't see you at the hall for a while. " We missed you at the meeting last week. Now is the time to serve Jehovah. We're in the last days, the end is so soon. " Meanwhile im just there awkwardly looking at them because there is nothing to say
  
  So yesterday i brought up, to my parents, the whole topic of 607BCE and that i couldn't arrive to that number and that i would like them to explain to me how to get to it. My mom obviously has to question my motives behind my question because, according to her, bringing up a question that I've never asked in the past must have to do with me being influenced by friends. I love how the meetings encourage to ask questions, if there's something you don't understand, to get clarifications and then when you actually ask it, you get criticized and must have ulterior motives.
  
  So anyways, i did my own research about the topic and then i spent 1 hour with my dad asking him to get to 607, because i obviously couldn't get to it. He still can't get to it or explain it so now he has to ask the elders or '' someone with more knowledge '' to explain it to me. And then my mom has the audacity to tell me '' why is this date so important to you " .... I felt genuinely bad for her because the organization revolves around that date to get to 1914 and 1919 and when i asked her about those two dates, she was struggling to find answer me but hey, i'm the one who's labeled as spiritually weak.

  The best is when did say, all these years that you've been coming to the hall and you still dont understand... And all these years that they've been going and they can't answer my questions. Double standards
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  lurkernomore

  It's sad isn't it! All those years and the most basic if not most fundamental of JW doctrines and they still don't understand...says a lot doesn't it.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Interesting OP, breezy.

  Now is the time to serve Jehovah. We're in the last days, the end is so soon - they've always said this, but when pressed not for a date but a mere timeframe they shy away. When I was an unbaptized publisher in 1994, I was 'encouraged' into baptism by the exact same reasoning: the end is sooo soon, you don't want to 'miss out'. That was 21 years ago.

  Meanwhile im just there awkwardly looking at them because there is nothing to say - indeed. How do you politely reason with them when the wrong question or the wrong tone of voice gets you potentially cut off from your family? The WTS is the religious equivalent of the mafia (sans violence, of course).

  When I was first starting to wake up and ask questions, my dad's response was always "how long have you been going to meetings?" It was going to meetings that made the questions come into my mind but I wasn't 'brave' enough to tell him this.

  Either posters on this forum have already advised you or you've sorted it out for yourself, but plan for your future. Education, employment, decent friends, Whatever subject interests you - study it; whatever job appeals to you try and apply for it. Obviously this forum is a good place to vent and make friends.

  All the best, LUHE.
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  breezy

  It's like they expect us to understand everything the first time it is mentioned and when you don't, you get hit with the glorious response " Did you even pay attention to what was being said " yet they can't explain it for themselves.
  
  I briefly brought up the generation understanding, and i asked my mom to explain it to me, she couldn't. She just told me " i don't want to talk to you right now " Today they wanted me to the meeting because the watchtower talked about association and who you should be friends with, who you should marry. Which is ironic to me because there is a built up chemistry between myself and this new girl at work. Waiting for the day where i won't need to ask anymore questions and just leave everything behind and worry about my own future life
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  Finkelstein

  People who become JWS are indoctrinated with information (doctrines) that is structured as such to support the organization (WTS.) and its top leaders. Exploiting people's ignorance on ancient biblical events is part that exploitation. Even the most ardent Orthodox Jewish historians and theologians say the final destruction of Jerusalem was in 586 BCE.
  

  Besides the destruction of ancient Jerusalem being off by some 20 years or more, the actual intent into calculating a specific date of Christ positioning in heaven is being disrespectful and disobedient to Jesus own commandment that he gave about setting times on God's own sacred time.
  

  These are the reasons why all other bible theologians, Jewish or Christian, never came out and proclaimed 1914 as something unique and special.

  So you could say the WTS perpetrated a fraud and tried to support it by using the outward belief in the bible the general pubic holds .
  

  The reality is and most JWS today aren't aware of this if that the WTS first made a date of Christ's return in 1874, and Armageddon would come in 1914, when nothing happened the dates were moved strategically forward.

  So from the viewpoint of the WTS leaders making false proclamations, from known secular knowledge and from the bible itself then proclaiming their organization was exclusively chosen by god is nothing more that self supporting fabrication and deceit endeavored toward the empowerment of the leaders of the WTS. and draw attention to the literature the WTS published.
• 

  Crazyguy

  Yes thier own documents prove that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 not 607. Next you should ask why a perfect man would use the term 'this generation ' since it's obvious according to the Wt that he was meaning 'these generations '
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  Magnum

  my mom has the audacity to tell me '' why is this date so important to you "

  Good grief! Why is it so important to you? How about why is so important to them? What extreme blindness! They're the ones that make a big deal about the date!

  Suppose I was making a big deal about Bigfoot - researching, searching for him, trying to justify his existence, etc. Then one day a friend asks me about the situation - whether I had any real evidence, etc., and I reply with "Why are you making such a big deal about Bigfoot?" It's ludicrous. I was the one making the big deal; he just asked me about it.
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  Finkelstein

  How did the WTS and its originating leaders gain power and control ?

  They lied and deceived in so many ways.
  

  How did the WTS and its leaders attract attention to the publications they made ?

  They lied and deceived in so many ways.
  

  In that process people became devoted followers and workers for this organization of corruption.

  It took time but the organization of devoted follows slowly grew and the WTS exploited them to make the organization grow even further toward their means and advantage.
  

  The point being is that once you get involved in this organization, you are demanded to adhere without dissident toward the doctrines the leaders create, you have no voice or say and when you get baptized you have to make a solemn vow to faithfully support the leaders. ( GB members/ executive directors / FDSL )

  To question them is in kind to questioning god himself ( Apostasy is the descriptive word) and they will demean, guilt and shame you for doing so, as well point you out as being spiritually weak influenced by Satan etc.
  
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  Diogenesister

  I think the book "The gentile Times Reconsidered "by Carl Olav Jonsson proves using the Bible that the destruction of Jerusalem took place in 586 bce.

  Jonsson was an elder who send all his extensive research to the WT. Their response is shocking & telling.

  Finky Baby I read somewhere initially Russell landed on 1915 with his calculations which was changed well after WW I to 1914. Am I right in this?
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  Phizzy

  yup Diog, you are right, Russell did not realise that there was no year Nought, so his math was out by one year.

  The funny thing was, when his expectations for 1914 were not fulfilled, i.e that all Earthly Governments would come to an end, he changed it back to 1915 to see if that worked.

  All this is from my aged memory so may not be spot on, but you get the gist, i.e Russell was making it up as he went along, the G.B and Writing Committee do exactly the same today, and still get it all wrong !