by onacruse 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
DJ
What's with the "equal sacrifice" - I'd be asking why the jws consider simply good deeds to be such weighty sacrifices, and undesirable things that require apportioning.
"dishonoured your dad" ? You simply put your children's well-being before your siblings whacked out fear trip - I hope you do it next time.
explain to me wtf just happened jwism - that's the way it is - it's an attack on people's dignity
paduan
Craig, I really enjoyed reading about how you are feeling right now, and I look forward to hearing more about this.
I am kind of in a rut about the whole meaning of life, is there life after death, etc . etc. I just don't want to think about it right now. But there are fleeting moments when I do, but not as I should.
I guess I keep waiting for that special moment to hit me and then I will be at total peace with myself, even if that means I have no more knowledge than I do now.
The more I read , the more I listen to people on the radio, TV, the more I hear everyone eles' ideas about life,,,,,,,,the more I feel I may never know all the things I think are so important.
My son and I were talking bout going to church and how some of his friends want him to go with them, and they bring it up alot, but he says he isnt going...I told him to be kind to them and remember how he was always trying to "save" someone as a JW. But he told me that he believes in God, and all he can do is be the best person he can be. ........ I agree with that. Maybe things are that simple, yet really so very deep at the same time.
I think as JW's we thought we had all of the deep meanings of the Bible, we knew what the freakin' trumpet blast were for goodness sake........, there was an answer for everything. So it takes alot of adjusting to realise we didnt know squat, we were mislead , we were played.
But like you said Craig there is light at the end of the JW tunnel. I am on my way, and thanks for reminding me to think of these things ,,,,,, my spiritual side,,,,,,,( spiritual means something different for everyone ) has always been very important to me.
I have been fighting to save that part of me,,,,, even thou being JW and leaving it, has left me wondering so many things, so many unanswered questions. But maybe God wants us to be this way, to not have the answers, and just watches us to see what we will do with what we have.......... I dunno....... but maybe I will start thinking about these kind of topics again.......thanks for the spark you made with this topic.
Oh yeah,,,,,,,,,,, what is metaphysical revelation? in your own words please? And how do you feel about it?
LE, I've struggled with those same feelings for the last 3 years, beginning with my "mental" departure from the WTS. imho it's just a natural and unavoidable phase of the "deconstruction process." We quite rightly throw away the garbage that we've believed for, in some cases, all our lives. And the re-building will naturally take time too, but while we're in that "holding pattern" we feel lost, depressed, and even hopeless. That's why I treasure this forum, because I believe it's in the sharing with others that we eventually find the key that unlocks the doors to ourself.
I had a similar experience in the late 80s, when I went to AA. Sitting there, in that room, listening to people that I'd never met before in my life, speaking about themselves and describing how they felt...it was like they somehow had opened up the script of my own mind, the script I didn't even know was in there, and were reading it back to me. It literally knocked me back in my chair...I was stunned, and thrilled, simultaneously.
As for metaphysical revelation, I really can't describe it in my own words, since I've never experienced such a thing. Perhaps that's the next step in my journey. Frankly, I'm afraid yet to go up to the edge of that cliff and look over.
"Baby steps, Bob, baby steps."
Craig
Big Tex,
Thanks for deciphering my gibberish. I don't know why they did that. I have been in contact with my family for 2 years now since my dad was diagnosed. I was previously shunned. This is considered "family business". I have been through some wacky times that make NO sense to me. Their behavior is almost like they really are under a spell. I can't even properly explain what they do to me and my husband. I have bent over backwards to help them in every way and they manage to twist everything into a problem. This is sick. I need to back away because it seems like they are just looking for things to dream up in order to justify hating us again. I only want to help my parents and my heart and conscience are clear but they all see me as a threat or a demon or something. I can't even explain how they have managed to twist and manipulate me in the past two years. I just see a need and try to fill it. They are actually measuring deeds with one another. I just can't take it anymore. BTW, you are right..my dad understands a lot..he just forgets small things at times. There is no excuse for dismissing him as a thinking person. He will eventually become unaware of his surroundings because of the tumor but he hasn't yet. Thanks again. love, dj
Paduan,
Yes, that's a quote. My jw sister is the measurer and she incites the others to do her bidding. Sacrifice? I just don't think that way!!!!! They are my parents and they just need help. It is a constant battle with these people. I hope that my kids don't see me as a sacrifice someday. My dad has been called a "burden" and everything else that you can imagine. I hate this! I simply offered to take him home with me because I love him...love, dj
Ona,
Sorry. I was attempting to show you the connection between honoring another's beliefs (ie: I would not have a b-day in front of my dad or take him to a Christian school play) I would not purposely incite anger with my behavior/beliefs in front of my jw family. It is similar to the blood tranfusion thread b/c although I don't share their 'conviction' about blood, birthdays, Christianity etc.. I wouldn't force it on them or purposely do it in front of them to offend them.. My jw mother wanted me to take my dad to my house and have a b-day and take him to a Christian play because she claimed that he wouldn't remember it!! Can't you see how wrong that is? His mental capacity is highly functioning, so she is just plain wrong there but I also would not justify doing things that he hates in front of him even if he would have forgotten. I should have asked my mom......can he have a transfusion too, since he "would forget anyway"? Do you see now? love, dj (sorry if you still see the hijack...I see a correlation>>>>>)
DJ, now I get it!
I should have asked my mom......can he have a transfusion too, since he "would forget anyway"?
Now that would have been a real bucket-of-ice-cold-water-in-the-face question! Very good example of where I'm going here.
Speaking of which...time for me to collect my thoughts and put up a pinatta
Craig
You, as the non-JW, mainly-apostate, ever-lovin', multi-talented, semi-precious rag doll of the family were just ganged up on by all the "holy ones" of your family in an effort to make you feel guilty for not behaving in just the way your loving family wanted. This proves that you have listened when I, or someone like me, has said, "You can't be walked on if you don't lie down first." Congrats! I see your siblings gathered 'round a Ouija board trying to figure out how come they couldn't bully you into sticking your finger into their pencil sharpener for them.
I predict there will be yet another attempt to manipulate you with guilt and I predict it pretty soon. So, stand fast. Only the lowest of the low attempt to manipulate people with guilt. Jehovah does it all the time; you need further proof than that?
Hang tight. Let 'em call you whatever they want. But in the end, it will have been you that triumphed. Then they will all get together one more time to talk about you. They will call you every unkind name in the book, but each one in their most secret place will respect you more than they will ever admit...for the valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone (as Gandhi as said), and your family can't help but respect your resolve.
Go for it. Do it. I know you can. You're already on the road.
francois
P.S. UP yours, WTBTS, you've lost another one.
((((((((dj))))))))
so your family wants to put you between a rock and a hard place?? continue to take the high road. francois is right.
"...love bears all things, hopes all things, endures all things. love never fails."
my thoughts, prayers and love are with you. nowisee
DJ, et al...please continue right along with your discussions. (I don't seem to find the word "hijack" in my dictionary )
To set the stage for my "other thoughts," I need to get a little pedantic and clarify how I'll be using the terms "moral" and "ethical." Please bear with me.
Hayakawa comments:
"Moral and ethical, once indistinguishable from each other, have recently taken on fine distinctions in meaning. Moral is now more often used in a quasi-religious sense, ethical in a quasi-legal sense...moral has more and more come to mean personal conduct as set by an external code or standard, especially when such conduct does not affect numbers of people...Ethical, by contrast, is more and more taken to describe just and fair dealings with other people, not by the application of an external standard but by a pragmatic consideration of all aspects of a situation in the light of past experience. To put it most extremely, moral can often be taken to mean private, codified, rigid and a priori; ethical to mean public, improvisatory, flexible and a posteriori: agreeing, despite differing moral values, on ethical ways to work with each other."
These are the senses in which I use these two terms, and which, perhaps, led to some seeming ambiguity in the way I've expressed myself on recent threads.
Also, I must emphasize that very little, if any, of what I say here is unique; I'm simply collecting together ideas that I've gotten from a whole lot of other people. I want to give credit as due, but I don't want to get into a quote-o-rama of "this philosopher said this, and that philosopher said that." We've most all had our belly-full of the "proof-text" methodology of the WTS. The Halakhah, Mishnah, Gemara and Midrash (etc) are all built up out of "Rabbi A and Rabbi B ...and Rabbi Z said this, so it must be true."
My first thought, as I snail my way through this topic, will be about our "essential and complete" isolation from each other in this universe. (Yeah, that sounds morbid, but it really does have a lot to do with the issue morality of self-determination...trust me )
Craig
<<-- rubbing her hands together in delighted anticipation as craig collects his thoughts and tantalizes us all...
