Russia - Still King of the North

by proplog2 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • proplog2

    When the Berlin Wall came down, even before the offical dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Watchtower was quick to back away from the idea that Russia was the king of the north. Nothing really changed. True, there is an appearance of friendship and cooperation between Russia and the US but Russia is the one country that can totally destroy the USA.

    The USA launched a pre-emptive attack on Iraq because it had weapons of mass destruction. There wasn't even a hint that the USA was the prime target for its weapons. However, judging from the article below, Russia has thousands of nukes and they are blatantly target practicing on the USA.

    Nezavisimaya Gazeta
    May 14, 2003
    New plan for military exercises focuse on America as the enemy
    Author: Igor Korotchenko
    [from WPS Monitoring Agency,]


    To all appearances, Russian military leaders have learnt a lesson from the Iraq war, and intend to show the US and its allies their determination to repel any potential threat coming from the West. Right after NATO Secretary-General George Robertson leaves Moscow, Russia will launch some extensive military exercises, in which Russian strategic bombers and nuclear submarines will deliver hypothetical nuclear strikes on the US and Britain, while locating and destroying aircraft-carrier groups of the US Navy.

    It is believed that Colonel-General Vladimir Mikhailov, Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force, will submit the plan for the exercises to Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov on May 14.

    However, some amendments may be made to this document - because Sergei Ivanov recently discussed this issue with Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin. It should be noted that the thesis about combating international terrorism, which the defense minister and the chief of the General Staff recently used in all official speeches, has been discarded as unwanted. The plan of the exercises is based on one of the alternatives for the escalation of a regional conflict into a war. According to certain reports, one aspect of the exercises will be linked with destroying the US satellite group in order to neutralize the NAVSTAR global navigation system, the Keyhole optoelectronic intelligence satellites, and the Lacross radio-locating intelligence satellites. Under actual conditions of a war this would "blind" the Pentagon and does not let the US use high-precision weapons against Russian military groups.

    Four Tu-160 and nine Tu-95MS strategic bombers, 12 Tu-22M3 long- range bombers, and four Il-78 flying tankers will be involved in the maneuvers on May 17-18. Major-General Igor Khvorov, commander of the 37th air army of the High Commander-in-Chief, said that the official objective of the exercise is to polish cooperation between the long- range aviation, the Navy, and other branches of the army in the western, eastern, northern, and southern regions of the Russian Federation, and over the world's oceans. This emphasizes a global scale of the impending maneuvers.

    It should be noted that long-range aviation units, which are the foundation of the airborne strategic nuclear forces, will be the first to implement a contract system of recruitment. To all appearances, the 22nd heavy bomber division stationed at the Engels airbase will play the key role in the exercises.

    Submarines of the Northern and Pacific fleets will launch ballistic missiles. Nuclear strategic and multi-purpose submarines, surface warships of different types, coastal missile and anti-aircraft units, and the missile-carrying, pursuit, and anti-submarine aviation will be involved in the exercise.

    Russian warships sent to the Arabian Sea to take part in an exercise with the Indian Navy will support strategic units. They will find and destroy US Los Angeles class submarines and deliver missile strikes at enemy warships.

    (Translated by Alexander Dubovoi)

  • Hamas

    On what basis do you interpret Russia being the King of the North? We could interpret it to be anything we like. In order to come to any kind of conclusion, we must measure the time in these prophesies. But, then, where do we start? The bible has no dates, so it is impossible to match up a King of the North to any country.

    Sure, there are those that think they may have the answers, like the JW's, but at the end of the day, its just all specualtion. Would you put your ass on the line and say outright 'Yes, the second king of the north mentioned is blablabla, from this period' ? We can't, because nobody really knows.

    People put too much emphasis on prophecy these days. The Watchtower is guilty of it, as is everybody that speculates. I wouldn't worry about it.

  • JH

    Nice article proplog2

    The only reason why the Soviet Union stopped being the enemy is that they were broke. So I think they still are the King of the North.

    There has to be a balance of power in the world, if you want to keep a certain peace and stability. Russia is still broke, but they are friends and allies with India who has a better economy that Russia.

    War games are always going on, and both sides know the strenghts and weaknesses of their counterparts.

    If there was to be a war with the US, Russia would have to strike first, because they are weaker. They would have to cripple the US with devastating blows.

    The real danger is that they have obsolete equipement and personel, that could make an error and accidentally start a war that no one wants.

  • rocketman
    The real danger is that they have obsolete equipement and personel, that could make an error and accidentally start a war that no one wants.

    That very thing almost happened.

    In 1995, the Russians were informed of a test involving wether equipment that would be flown over Norway and near their air space.

    The information was not relayed to higher command personnel. As a result, when the object was spotted, it was initally thought to be a possible missle. From what I read (in Time magazine) things got hairy for a while until it was confirmed that the object was for nothing more than weather observation.

    I used this point in a Public Talk I had, though I no longer have the outline, so I have no reference to which issue of Time the article appeared in.

  • proplog2


    I still believe in Bible Prophecy. The reason for this would take too much explaining. Part of the explanation calls into question who is REALLY doing the predicting, for what purpose and the nature of the universe.

    The bible has no dates, so it is impossible to match up a King of the North to any country. _Hammas

    As to the matter of time and prophecy. Time is the measurement of a sequence of events. Our minds are much better at remembering the sequence of events than the actual date and time of an event. The modern concept of time with exact calendars and watches is overkill for most of us.

    The book of Daniel describes a sequence of world powers that extend from his day until the supposed "end". In the Dream Image you have a sequence of 5 kingdoms. That doesn't allow for a lot of room for speculation.

    Babylon as represented by Nebuchadnezzar was the HEAD OF GOLD. So that's the starting point.

    Persia conquered Babylon and became the BREAST AND ARMS OF SILVER

    Greece conquered Persia and became the BELLY AND THIGHS OF COPPER. This is qualified by the description that it would rule over the whole earth (in a relative sense).

    Rome conquered Greece and became the LEGS OF IRON.

    It is at the point where the FEET OF CLAY & IRON need to be identified that the Watchtower makes a serious mistake.

    Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy page 59 paragraph 27 The (b) question for that paragraph is

    "What is pictured by the ten toes of the image?"

    The answer?

    "The ten toes of the image represent all such coexisting powers and governments, for in the Bible the number ten at times signifies earthly completeness"

    Why are they hung up with the 10 toes? If you read the 2nd chapter of Daniel the word "ten" doesn't even appear. If the number 10 were really significant don't you think it would have been mentioned? In fact "number" is also lacking in reference to arms and legs. This is NOT an interpretation that is driven by Holy Spirit. It is a hodge-podge of mystical numerological ideas that lead Jehovah's Witnesses astray. The idea that the feet suddenly represent "kingdoms" (special emphasis is placed on plurality) is total fabrication. The head represented one kingdom -Babylon. Next Dan. 2:39 says "after you there will rise another kingdom (singular) ... and another kingdom (singular) a third one of copper.. Dan 2:40 says "And as for the fourth kingdom (again singular).

    So then is there a change in this pattern when the fifth part of this image is described?

    Dan 2:41 says the "kingdom (singular) will prove to be divided....the kingdom (singular) will partly prove to be strong..." Finally, kings (plural) are mentioned in Daniel 2:44 when it speaks of the whole image being knocked down and crushed. "It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms (plural). Some may be tempted to say that this is referring to the 10 kingdom/toes, however verse 45 repeats the symbolic metals of the image indicating that the plurality is referring to the image as a whole. Clearly the clay/iron does not represent "many" kingdoms and certainly not "all" the kingdoms of the earth. There is nothing to indicate that the feet and toes are anything but a singular kingdom that has as one of its characteristics that it is loosely held together. Therefore the statement by the Watchtower that "the ten toes of the image represent all such coexisting powers and governments" based on the idea that "in the Bible the number ten at times signifies earthly completeness" is absolutely false. Although the number 10 may at "TIMES" represent "EARTHLY COMPLETENESS" they fail to show how the feet of the image necessarily represents one of those "times".

    But, now back to a consideration of this fith & final part of the image and what "kingdom" the feet might represent.

    Clearly the feet and toes represent the final world power on earth. In Daniel Chapter 11 the final power on earth is the King Of the North. The King of the South is not mentioned again after the King of the North storms against the King of the South in reaction to being pushed. In Revelation the final head of the Chapter 13 beast is wounded, revives, and destroys Babylon the Great. This revived wild beast is hurled alive into the lake of fire. We can sum up the characteristics of the final power on earth as follows.

    1. It will prove to be partly strong like iron and partly weak like moist clay. It will not prove to be sticking together this one to that one because they will lack homogeneity due to being mixed with the offspring of mankind.

    2. It will achieve its power over the whole earth after it recovers from what appears as a death-blow. After it revives people will wonder admiringly at its ability to still do battle.

    3. It is significantly a NORTHERN kingdom.

    Does this not describe Russia? Is it just a coincidence that Russia the largest country in the world, with three-quarters of its land mass north of the 50th parallel should also be described with the following words:

    "Within one week's time, in the summer of 1991, the 74-year-old Union of Soviet Socialist Republics became a finished part of history." _ Comptons On-Line Encyclopedia

    What about the clay & iron feature of the final empire? Does that fit USSR/RUSSIA? We can look again to the Compton's On-Line Encyclopedia for a description of Russia's so-called "Nationalities Problem".

    "In an age of nationalism every nationality aspires to independent statehood. The non-Russian peoples were appeased with a hierarchy of administrative units. Fifteen were granted a soviet socialist republic status that, according to the constitution, most resembled that of a sovereign nation-state. Twenty others possessed the status of an autonomous soviet socialist republic, which provided some cultural autonomy. Still others were recognized as autonomous oblasts or autonomous okrugs, designations that meant little beyond an official acknowledgement of ethnic identity... The government became less and less ethnically representative as a result of the slow demographic growth of the ethnic Russians and the rapid growth of the other ethnic groups, especially the Muslim groups in Central Asia and elsewhere."

    Once you sweep away Watchtower misunderstandings you end up with an explanation that is eerily coherent. So you see the prophecy of Daniel can't just go on & on endlessly. There are 5 and only 5 kingdoms that follow in sequence until you reach the time of the end.

    I have writen more prophecy stuff at

  • proplog2


    I haven't gotten a response back from you. Hopefully you can see that if Daniel is some sort of relevant prophecy there isn't room for one more empire than we have right now. If China finally becomes the world's hegemon that would invalidate the book of Daniel.

    Are you a practicing Moslem?

    If you are can you connect me to any links dealing with prophecies in the Koran>

  • proplog2

    Events of late concerning Putin & Russia have been quite interesting

  • hillary_step
    I still believe in Bible Prophecy. The reason for this would take too much explaining.


  • heathen

    This is ridiculous , the US is king of the north . The Daniel prophesy shows the king of the north with many ships also called the ships of kittim which are believed to mean they come from the west and they attack the contintinent of asia , which has happened during the golf war .

  • kid-A

    Meanwhile, a few miles upstate......

    "I'm the King of the North!"

    "No, I'M the King of the North!"

    No, no, no!!!! I'M the King of the North!!!!"

    "OK, you can be the King of the South!"

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