History of Salvations: Israelites and Judahites

by Doug Mason 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Perry

    If I could help that gentleman in that picture, it is this -- in October 2016 I too had a pot belly, weighing in at 110.5 kilos. Within 6 months I had dropped 33 kilos and I have kept it off ever since. If he wants to know the secret, tell him to contact me and I will tell him what worked for me.

    Doug, attacking the man in a personal way and just regurgitating denial proclamations without supporting reasoning is beneath you.

    As the clip convincing illustrates, the Christian Belief System can be traced to AT MOST no later than six months (some concede 2-3 years) after the Crucifixion event. Prominent non-christian scholars agree with this. This is established fact Doug. Why are you not getting this?

    There was an empty tomb discovered on the third day. Fact.

    As the event spread throughout the Roman empire, even Caesar was moved to threaten those who would "steal bodies". Rome wanted their executed enemies to stay dead.

    This event radically changed the course of world history to the point that all nations now count time by this man's life.

    Death doesn't have to be permanent Doug. Open your mind and heart.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason


    It has been pointed out to me that I should acknowledge my forebears and the gene pool I owe my debt to.

    Although my religious experiences have only ever been as a Christian, my gene pool is pure Jewish. I have no experience, exposure, or practical knowledge of Judaism, yet I believe it is possible my ancestry plays its part.

    I also know that my thinking is greatly aided by the 90 minute walk I undertake each day, and I highly recommend it -- not for weight loss but for physical well-being and for assisting in the mental process.

    I created this post in my mind while out walking.


  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason


    Offering to help someone is not an attack. I see health problems that i would dearly love to help him address, if he wants to.

    Perry, you are fully entitled to your opinions and if they help you cope, then it is essential you maintain them.

    Even if the tomb were empty, you will need to build a theoretical hypothesis on that, all the while selecting which of the multitude of explanations to accept. I am very familiar with the "Substitute Death" Theory, but it is not the only one. To me, the NT teaches that salvation depends on allegiance, on obedience, not on mental assent.


  • Ruby456

    You rock Doug. Keep going

  • Ruby456

    Perry it seems to me that u r contradicting yourself re Jesus and pain.

    I think also we may need to consider how the death of Jesus was part of what Focault called the theatrical display of torture and suffering and pain to make this a warning for the Jews to be obedient to the emperor.

    christianity used this very creatively and reworked it as part of their experience and engagement with life. The Apostle Paul contextualised such pain and suffering by means of pregnancy and birth pangs. He seemed to see all of life groaning in birth pangs.

  • Xanthippe
    Why would anyone create a Creator-God whom humbled himself, washed people’s feet, rode a donkey, allowed himself to be spit on, stripped naked, beat beyond recognition, & nailed to a tree until dead... for the express purpose of being displayed in utter humiliation?

    So they could enslave the masses with the idea that excessive humility, obedience, submission to hardship, pain and suffering are good things. Don't let them forget their duties and offerings to the priests, clergy, monarch who's the divinely appointed head of the church.

    Normal humans move away from pain and discomfort. They also move towardsomething perceived as beneficial. This is called motivation direction. One repels, one pulls.

    Unless they have indoctrinated since childhood that suffering is good for their immortal soul. That self-sacrifice and giving until it hurts is good because look what Christ suffered for your sake. How can you give any less?

  • Phizzy

    Dear Doug,

    My thanks once again for your work, and for making it available to us here !

    I too love to ponder the questions in your particular area of interest that you provide to us here, and have asked the same questions you pose above about Paul.

    I also find great emotional and intellectual satisfaction in gaining new insights, you give us these ! I also like the clear and understandable way you present your findings and your thoughts. You are kind enough to give us references which take me in to further reading.

    Long may you continue !

    I am sorry you are being assailed by "Perry", I am afraid whatever evidence and clear reasoning you present to him, it will not change his "believer" status.

    My thanks again.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason


    Thank you.

    If I am able to make others think, then I am more than satisfied. I do not demand agreement.

    I am delighted to know that you are inspired to read sources such as I list. The full details are at the end of Part 3. They contain gems that I have not presented.

    Several are available as Kindle versions. I have the free Kindle software on my computer and it does make life a little easier.

    I am about to delve into the history of the development of Satan. A question that you or someone might be able to solve for me: I come to the Eve-Snake-Adam-Tree myth as an anti-Asherah polemic. In some depictions of Asherah, she is shown with a snake. Also, in ancient times, snakes were symbols of wisdom and because they shed their skin, some saw them as a symbol of rebirth.

    So I can imagine that Snake in the Eden myth satisfied many symbolic meanings for the writers as they tried to discredit Asherah and other religious beliefs. (Did Adam represent Yahweh??)

    With that background, I ask the question of myself: If my assumptions are correct, at what point was Snake associated with Satan? Or does that association indicate the role of Satan in their eyes? That is, as a tester working on Yahweh's behalf (like in Job, written about the same time)?


  • Perry

    So they could enslave the masses with the idea that excessive humility, obedience, submission to hardship, pain and suffering are good things.


    Pain and suffering were here long before the Christian era. Asceticism is a heretical idea unknown to Christians. Christian Freedom is the opposite of what you describe.

    I know that we have all been subjected to some of the most profound ignorance and petty allegiances ever devised on planet earth. But the depravity of our previous (Wt) idol has little to do with the real thing.

    All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient [good for you]: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. - 1 Cor. 10: 23

    In Christ, the love for God and love for neighbor is written on hearts. Most of the rules are just gone. Some things may turn out to be worthless that we pursue, but they are not illegal and do not threaten salvation like the Wt taught.

    I am a proponent of the Christian faith, the real one. Not the one passed down in my family by my great grandmother and then on to her many daughters who in turn oppressed their husbands and children with WT idolatry for generations.

    Secularists today want the stability that Christianity has brought to the West with precepts such as :

    1. Loving your neighbor as yourself.

    2. Turning the other cheek when possible

    3. Loving (having empathy) for your enemies

    3. Giving consideration for the least among us (the poor)

    4. Honesty

    I've noticed that secularists like these things because they create a more stable society conducive to health and wealth. But, they want the Tree without the root system. They are like a man who sees a tree in a forest of ideas and wishes to transplant it to his own property. He proceeds to remove only the portion he can see, cutting it at ground level. He is gravely disappointed when it withers and dies.

    The root of Western Freedom is Christ himself....who gave us freedom from unnecessary rules and freedom from death itself.

  • Xanthippe
    Christian faith, the real one. Not the one passed down in my family by my great grandmother

    Perry, the Reformation was all about finding the real faith, getting back to the Bible. Christian denominations have been asserting ever since we just have to find what the real faith is, get a better bible translation, pray for more Holy Spirit, find out what Jesus really meant and on and on. How many more years are we going to spend on this?

    Loving your neighbor as yourself.
    2. Turning the other cheek when possible
    3. Loving (having empathy) for your enemies

    Google The Golden Rule, Perry, these are not ideas that Christianity brought to the West. Confucius, Greek philosophers and even Zoroaster had these ideas.

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