Why was it so hard for Jesus to convince the Jews that he was the Messiah??? (page 4)

fulltimestudent

David, I'm sorry to be sceptical, I saw the names of the rabbi's whose signed the letter on the web-site you linked for us, but what percentage of all Jewish rabbis would that be?

Are there rabbis who oppose this notion?

Further, it all sounds to me a bit like the ancient arrangement, "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." So I'm quite unable to see how it supersedes anything previously known about this topic

But moving on, you described a critical part of the process by which modern Israel was established rather glibly, when you wrote:

"After World War II when the Axis powers fell, and the Jews returned to their homeland with the birth of the new republic of Israel."

In dispossessing the inhabitants of Palestine post WW2 were the Jews acting legally or illegally. If legal, then do, I having Anglo-saxon ancestry, have the right to go back to the UK and take back the lands that French-Norman invaders of England, stole from my ancestors post 1066 CE? If the Jewish actions set a legal precedent, then the world is going to have huge disturbances as all kinds of peoples attempt to regain their ancestral heritages. The dispossession of the Palestinians by Jews is a major reason for political unrest in the middle east, and the terrorism that accompanies it?

Is that terrorism right or wrong?

If you argue that its wrong, how would you justify the terrorism used by Jews to gain control of Palestine post WW2?

Do you imagine that YHWH approved the actions of Jewish terrorists in their campaign for an independent state in Palestine?

As Palestinians attempt to regain their lost territory (to which they once had legal title), are they justified in using terrorism?

Many acts of terrorism were performed by Jewish terrorists in their 'war' attempting to expel the British (who had been mandated by the Versailles peace treaty following WW1.)

You can read some of them on this web-site: http://www.iamthewitness.com/doc/Bunche.Report.on.Zionist.Terrorism.in.the.Near.East.htm

Quote: The report is a compilation of all identified terrorist attacks on British, American and Arab individuals and entities from the assassination of the British Resident Minister in the Middle East on November 6, 1944 by members of the terrorist Jewish Stern gang to the assassination of Count Bernadotte on September 17, 1948 by members of this same gang of fanatics.
This information is compiled from reports of the US Department of State, the British Foreign Office and various American and British press services.
New York, October 1, 1948

I ask again, were those terrorist acts approved by YHWH?

Here's one (selected at random):

March 22, 1945, Cairo. The two convicted Jewish Stern gang terrorists who murdered Lord Moyne and his driver were hanged in the Cairo prison British authorities announced.

Will those two terrorists have a resurrection?

sowhatnow

here is what i come up with a while back when i asked the question why Jews rejected Jesus

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

very interesting.

Wonderment

For the Jews, it was a matter of expectation versus visible realization.

They were expecting a political leader, who as a king, would deliver them from the power of Rome, and bring in a new and independent Israelite kingdom. They were hoping for a golden age of political freedom, not a spiritual leader.

David_Jay

Fulltimstudent,

I've run into this more than several times on this site, and while it surprises me that some people are not aware of this, but just becuase I report something does not mean i condone it, approve of it, agree with it, believe it, or have any emotional investment I it. I am not the type of person to only speak up on those subjects that benefit me or side with my views or convictions.

Therefore I am not the one who can answer your questions. I think you should direct them to those rabbis who signed (and are still signing this agreement). You may also wish to consult with theologians connected with the Holy See, likely beginning on the diocesan level with the Catholic pastoral office in your area. You should ask for the office of the Chancellor. You can also contact the local Orthodox rabbis in your area.

Beyond finding this very interesting in the history of Jewish-Christian relations, I am merely a watcher from the sidelines. I have no personal views or opinions regarding any of the parties involved.

kaik

Real, practicing Jew will not accept Jesus as a Messiah. It is not possible to reconcile both religions due different theology. Jews do not believe in Jesus sacrifice for paying out for sins of the humanity. However, Jews recognize that one point in time there was a guy name Jesus, who was a Jew, and had done great deeds. But he did not fulfill expectation to be a Messiah. Messiah would usher a new period of peace for humanity, which did not happen 2000 years ago.

David_Jay

Right, kaik, and this statement is not about the issue of who is Messiah, whether Messiah is a real person, whether it is this guy or that girl or any of that.

The statement even clearly spells out it is not about reconciling Judaism with Christianity either. It clearly states that that there are many views both sides may never be able to reconcile, ever.

The statement is about how many Orthodox Jews for the first time are declaring that Christianity is part of "tikkun olam" when previously it was viewed not of divine origin and thus an obstacle to that particular redemption.

Heaven

Ask yourself the following question: If someone walked up to me today and said they were The Messiah and the son of god, Jesus Christ, would I believe them?

James Mixon

Heaven: If he are she went to a grave yard and raised a dead person I would

follow him or she to the end of the earth, or if there is a car accident and the driver is

sitting in the car with his ear missing and a guy comes up and reattach his ear, yes I

would think he may be the one. In order for me to believe he would have do some amazing stuff,

pulling a rabbit out the hat will not cut the mustard.

fulltimestudent

David_Jay : Fulltimstudent,
I've run into this more than several times on this site, and while it surprises me that some people are not aware of this, but just becuase I report something does not mean i condone it, approve of it, agree with it, believe it, or have any emotional investment I it. I am not the type of person to only speak up on those subjects that benefit me or side with my views or convictions. ...

Yes, I'm sure you have come across the ideas. But adding fable to myth does not make it useful.

DJ continued:Beyond finding this very interesting in the history of Jewish-Christian relations, I am merely a watcher from the sidelines. I have no personal views or opinions regarding any of the parties involved.

Thank you for clarifying your position as an independent observer.

Much of my post was directed, not at the concept of Jewish acknowledgement of Christianity, but at the glib passing over of the terrorist actions that accompanied the illegal seizure of Palestianian land preceding the declaration of the State of Israel.

That action had a destabilizing effect on West Asia and can now be seen as being a major cause of the terrorism that is spreading over the world.

We should not forget that Jewish terrorism was the modern spark that lit the fire of today's terrorism.

Neither should we forget the mythical encouragement of genocide by the Jewish God, YHWH, during the Jewish invasion of Canaan and his command to "slay utterly."

There is nothing noble or humanitarian in this religion.

Why was it so hard for Jesus to convince the Jews that he was the Messiah???

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