Who is Jesus?
Hi all. New to the forum. Hope today finds everyone well. I’m not super familiar with JW theology concerning Jesus. But I understand, at least surfacely, that Jesus is not regarded as God. I find so many passages of scripture that speak to the seeming deity of Christ...and I’d wonder if anyone would be willing to do some commentary on a few of them for me.
I’d like to start with John 1. If JW’s interpretation of this text, as showing that Jesus is not GOD but rather just A god, is accurate...isn’t it rather confusing that the text goes onto describe Him as creator? So not only does one have to know the deeper meaning of John 1:1 as showing Jesus to be A god and not Almighjty God, but they also have to sort of negotiate the rest of the text that describes Jesus as Creator. Any help would be great!
Answer = an imaginary god that was slowly devised and created to make for a better god than what was previously acknowledged and present at set the time in human history by and for a ancient civilization.
Humanity has had a long history of creating gods to not only explain the world in which we live but to appeal to the human condition such as pain, suffering and death.
These mythological stories were appealing for various reasons, the reason the Jesus god lasted so long to date is that he was a god that inherently contained more humanistic values toward the overall betterment of mankind.
You should read Richard Carriers work on Jesus or see some of his debates. He has published an excellent book where he demonstrates there is less than a 25% chance Jesus was real.
Basically Jesus started out as a celestial being and then they made up the "historical" jesus along the way. This sounds a bit crazy but it happened a lot in the ancient world and the evidence support this idea well.
Nobody has refuted Carriers thesis so far..
I trust you realize that this is an Ex-JW forum. Many here do not believe in God or Christ or the Bible as the word of God.
But biblically speaking I would agree with you about the ontology of Jesus being Lord and God
I’m not super familiar with JW theology concerning Jesus.
Obviously you're not familiar with this forum either. Many people here WERE JWs and are in various degrees of DETACHMENT from that organization.
However, we do have a section where people discuss the Bible and doctrine. There might be people interested in what you have to say. In my experience in this forum, there are people who can't care less about the topic, and others that are seeking comfort, support and other things that have nothing to do with discussing doctrine.
Feel free to explore the forum. That will give you a better feel of what it is about.
If the belief of errors not morally bad did no mischief, it would make no part of the moral duty of man to oppose and remove them. There was no moral ill in believing the earth was flat, any more than there was moral virtue in believing that it was round like a globe; neither was there any moral ill in believing that there exists no God or there exists a God because belief in God is not necessary to be a good man. You know what action of others make you happy or sorrowful which means you also know how you should act towards others. Hence God never authorizes writing of scriptures. All scriptures and characters like Jesus are works of human imagination.
Interestingly, Bible itself gives proofs that Jesus was imagined by writers. For example, it is reportedly told by Jesus: "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.” (John 3:13) It means only Jesus who descended from heaven has gone into heaven, no one else has gone into heaven! Jesus ascended into heaven at the end of his ministry, after his death. Hence how could he say he has ascended into heaven at the start of his ministry?
Aren`t their scriptures in the Hebrew books ( OT) that indicate that their are faithful men (women?) of old that have gone to heaven ? Such as Abraham Isaac and Jacob ?for instance and ,any women ? Any others ?
And if so wouldn`t that contradict John 3:13 ?
Bear with me it`s been a long time since I was an active JW
I thought it was an interesting point you made venus
Venus, that is an interesting argument in your first paragraph (leaving aside the last two sentences). I haven’t come across it before, but I like it.
But I understand, at least surfacely, that Jesus is not regarded as God
JW's do not consider Jesus as the Almighty God. For them, he is a mighty god, who has divine characteristics, but not to the point of being a supreme sovereign.
isn’t it rather confusing that the text goes onto describe Him as creator?No. Jw's teach that he shared in the production/creation of the world and its things. Not the creator, nor a co-creator, but a master worker. Psalms 36:9 says the the almighty God is the source of life and in Matthew 19:4, Jesus gives the credit of creation to God, not to himself.