Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount! (page 5)

wozza

After all ,they did warn the brothers of seeing things that may not make sense to them!

the girl next door

Memphis said:
Just how exactly do I harm the interests of the WBTS by copying something they want to suppress? Mull that over a little and figure out which is the greater right - the right to knowledge about a harmful cult, or the right of a cult to suppress that information.

Watchtower would argue that the illegal distribution of their copyrighted work meant only for their BOEs could cause many rank and file members to leave the organization, taking their voluntary contributions to the world wide work with them. That is financial loss. It may be ethical from our standpoint to do so, and it most definitely is to wake people up causing them to abandon the WT organization. But it does not lift the violation of copyright infringement. Call it civil disobedience if you like.

Now, in conjunction with this, you will see in this forum, on reddit, and on multiple FB walls, that there is a huge number of ExJWs that are still justifying the pirating and distribution of CoC. To us it is unethical and morally corrupt to do so. But justifications for "civil disobedience" are really only in the eye of the beholder aren't they?

Watchtower is just as livid over the breach of copyright for their publications, documents, files, letters etc. as are the large percentage of us that now unequivocally believe the piracy of CoC is horrendous. Which leads me to another question.

Why now? Why such a pinnacle of outrage with this issue today? Tens of thousands of pirated PDFs of CoC have circulated for many years amongst this community. I find it extremely ironic that a Cedars video and a Mike Kim rebuttal have propelled this issue at present into epic proportions.

cofty

Just how exactly do I harm the interests of the WBTS by copying something they want to suppress?

Eh?

OrphanCrow

Damn. No. I do not believe that the WTS has protection under the copyright laws.

Their publications don't stand the sniff test.

Firstly, their indoctrination propaganda is "freely" distributed to the public.

Secondly, so are the elder's manuals and letters, etc. A select group of "the public", but the public, nonetheless.

Thirdly, an underlying principle that is part of the establishment of the copyright laws is such that the protection of ownership of "creative material" would stimulate more creative projects/endeavours. That is one of the primary purposes of copyright.

Fourthly, the publication of "fact" is not creative.

Fifthly, the ARC was not blocked from publishing the material to the public.

The WTS material doesn't meet the standard on any of what copyright law requires or is intended to protect.

The WTS is trying to set their own rules and call it "copyright law protection" when in reality, they are dealing with security breaches within their own organization. That's all. That kind of information - secret corportae stuff - is supposed to be kept secure if they don't want people to get their hands on it. That is why it is "secret". They can't legally protect it any other way.

the girl next door

Then tell me Orphan Cow, why is Watchtower successful in shutting down websites, youtubes, etc. of their choosing due to copyright violations?

Mephis

Watchtower would argue that the illegal distribution of their copyrighted work meant only for their BOEs could cause many rank and file members to leave the organization, taking their voluntary contributions to the world wide work with them. That is financial loss. It may be ethical from our standpoint to do so, and it most definitely is to wake people up causing them to abandon the WT organization. But it does not lift the violation of copyright infringement. Call it civil disobedience if you like.

I'd love to see the WBTS lawyers try to argue that. "You see the harm is that when people realise we're full of nonsense, they stop giving us money." No. They have to show that they have been harmed financially by making CoC available in spite of them holding copyright on it. People really do confuse breaching intellectual property law with criminal law. They two very very different things.

Now, in conjunction with this, you will see in this forum, on reddit, and on multiple FB walls, that there is a huge number of ExJWs that are still justifying the pirating and distribution of CoC. To us it is unethical and morally corrupt to do so. But justifications for "civil disobedience" are really only in the eye of the beholder aren't they?

Not really. There's a very clear distinction between holding copyright to suppress and holding copyright to benefit financially from using that copyright.

Watchtower is just as livid over the breach of copyright for their publications, documents, files, letters etc. as are the large percentage of us that now unequivocally believe the piracy of CoC is horrendous. Which leads me to another question.
Why now? Why such a pinnacle of outrage with this issue today? Tens of thousands of pirated PDFs of CoC have circulated for many years amongst this community. I find it extremely ironic that a Cedars video and a Mike Kim rebuttal have propelled this issue at present into epic proportions.

Pass. i was addressing the issue you raised in your OP. I don't find breaking copyright particularly outrageous. I used to technically break it every time I transfered media from one device to another. Even the courts recognise the shambolic nature of current copyright law. Lots of froth with this current noise, lots of silliness, not my monkeys, not my circus.

OrphanCrow

And...as far as "harm" goes...well, geez, I guess ya shouldn't have put it in print in the first place, huh?

OrphanCrow

GND: Then tell me Orphan Cow, why is Watchtower successful in shutting down websites, youtubes, etc. of their choosing due to copyright violations?

Maybe because nobody has taken them on yet with the right arguments. They have a lot of squawky lawyers and paper mountains at their disposal. And money.

And also because much of copyright laws and intellectual property rights have been challenged at a rapid pace right along with the speed of the technological advances during the past couple decades. The legal world is trying to catch up.

*Oh...and that is "Crow", by the way. You must have me mixed up with someone else. Sokay...that happens. :)

Oubliette

Simon: "civil disobedience" isn't a let-off or an excuse for any crime. It's really the notion that people are willing to break the law and accept the consequences of their action in order to highlight a cause (and possibly change the law).

Exactly!

Well said, Simon, well said.

the girl next door

Copyright is utilized in any way the copyright holder wishes. However we weigh in on it, if it agrees with us or not, violation of copyright is illegal, even when that copyright is to suppress or protect financial loss.

What if Deborah Dykstra decides the ExJW community is too overwhelming to deal with and chooses never to republish Franz' books? Her statement was great. But until we see the books published, we don't really know what she is going to do do we?

Many assert that CoC is not the end all be all ExJW Bible, but let's face it, everyone wants this book available. If Dykstra doesn't follow through with publishing, I would expect it will continue to be status quo, the mass pirating and distribution of Ray's books.

Watchtower purchases CoC copyright for undisclosed amount!

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