Reading The Bible Again After Leaving
Hiemere - I think you missed my point. It's hard to tell when you write such wordy replies.
I don't care for the label of atheist because it tells us absolutely nothing about a person except the trivial detail that they don't believe in the god of theism. So what? Why should anybody be defined by one thing they don't believe? There are lots of things I don't believe in but none of them come with a label.
I am FOR reason and science and rational thinking and an evidence-based worldview. Stalin was against all of those things. The fact that he also did not believe in god is as irrelevant as the fact he had a mustache. He was an ideologue. For you to even raise the name of Stalin in this context demonstrates a basic misunderstanding.
I am rational because of my worldview and that leads me to do good things. You are irrational by definition and yet despite that you also do good things. Well done. Now if you could just get over your superstitions!
I believe you were an elder and had quite a “career” going up the ladder in the Society, if I read your posts correctly. Now that you are not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses I firmly am convinced that you have chosen to follow the noble path of rationality.
But you are also very angry. And you are not being rational in your anger. You were so sure I would be someone to condemn you to hell. You speak as you are so sure that I reject “facts, evidence and rational thought,” as if they are “anathema” to me. None of that is true.
A truly rational person, one who acts on facts and evidence and rational thought (as you mentioned) would not ‘bet’ that they knew things about me that they really didn’t. Evidence is about gathering empirical data, testing it, presenting results for getting them validated by independent and disinterested parties. None of that you did with me. Yet you are claiming you are “so sure” about these things about me. How can you be?
I’m not selling anything, not here to make converts, and will even leave after this last post so that I cannot be mistaken as someone trying to get others to adopt my views (though you feel justified in trying to get me to adopt yours--as your “here’s betting you can’t” demonstrates).
My parents died, an aunt of no blood relation looked after me, and under her roof I had to go to all the meetings at the Kingdom Hall and weekly book study and accompany her on field service when not in school. I did it from age 10 to 18, and never returned to the Kingdom Hall again when I was no longer under her legal custody.
I just came here after some Witnesses came to my door, read around a bit to see what the Witnesses were up to, and answered a question here about Bible reading. No agenda. But I’ve noticed how some people here just leapt upon me exactly as I had been hounded when growing up in the Kingdom Hall.
The only difference is that you folks aren’t elders or ministerial servants or pioneers or your basic everyday Witness anymore--at least most of you aren’t. But it is still the same thing I am experiencing.
From the point of view of that orphaned boy I was who still went to the Catholic school his parents had enrolled him into by day and accompanied his aunt to the Kingdom Hall by night, it is the same old song I hear you singing to me, and oddly enough the same people singing it to me: “You’re wrong in what you believe. Your belief system has caused destruction. It’s time has come. Joining us is the only logical thing to do. If you don’t you will die an idiot.”
I got called “stupid” and a “child of demons” and a “cursed idol worshiper” by circuit overseers, pioneer ladies, and elders, and just about everyone else who were JWs. And now that I am here, thinking I would find refreshing stories to share, I got the same old accusations from the same type of people. Only now you are atheists and agnostics or have a new religion (not all of you are the same).
I never understood how JWs thought there was “the truth” and how they walked around so proud that they had “the truth,” and felt as if having “the truth” gave them license to condemn everyone else.
Now that you are out, you are still saying the same thing to me. I am still being called stupid. Maybe as Catholic I am stupid.
I may be stupid to worship God, and stupid to pray the Rosary, and stupid to go to Mass where I believe the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus. It does sound stupid. I don’t claim it sounds rational, and in fact I don’t think religion should. It’s a crutch to help you get through life. I admit it. I may be a very, very stupid man, still as stupid as I was when I was that orphaned boy.
But I was not stupid enough to join a cult.
So in my “stupidity” I see it as irrational to believe what you have to say now. I can accept becoming an atheist and turning away from God and following that path. It’s possible I am wrong and need to change.
But I am not going to do it because of what you said. In fact, would you follow someone who was stupid enough to join a cult and preach it for--how many years did you do that--now that he claimed he had found something better? Wouldn’t you at least be cautious of their claims? Is that rational?
You haven’t changed. You are still that elder that called this boy fit for destruction so many years ago. You just changed the team you played for, but you are still peddling judgment and self-righteousness.
Thanks to Simon, who I believe is very gracious.
But to some of you, you kind of make this statement on the first page of this forum a bit of a joke:
"We...provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment where you can ask questions, share information and make new friends."
Some of you are, but a lot of you are not the definition of friendly and tolerant.
And write all you want in reply to what I've written as I am not coming back to read any of it.
Oh no, the elder card. Not that. Hiemere, tell me what you have against living an evidence based life? Please. Do you think we should NOT live an evidence based life when it comes to:
Health? Finances? Relationships The Environment? Diet? Exercise? The Future of the Planet? Socio-Economic Reform? Immigration? Whether Soccer is really a sport?
Which of those areas do you think it unwise to live or practice an evidence based life?
Any of them? I am assuming your answer would be there are none in that grouping where living an evidence based life would be a bad thing. If I'm assuming wrongly please re-direct.
Princess, you are having such a fit-pitch over this. Calling me an elder is a tired, worn out ad hominem that is used by individuals who have no argument, no evidence, no data and no facts.
Let's all understand that the reason Hiemere is leaving so abruptly is that, like so many before her, she didn't find it as easy as she expected to spread her theist infection.
Too bad for Hiemere. Too, too bad. Yay for the human race. At least the small part of it on this site. And Hiemere, I know you WILL read this: Google "the benefits from living an evidence based life.'
That is your homework assignment. When you return Professor DJS will expect better from you.
Actually, I find that most ex-jws are reading the bible for the first time with out the WTS technique of snippets, only part of the scripture, and citations (not quoted in the material). I found as a jw that about 3 people in the audience commented on the bible reading, and certainly few read it. Many assumed that eventually all the scriptures would appear in a WTS publication so they did not have to read it. When I was still a jw, I started reading the bible all the way through, 5 chapters a night. I had to slow down because of all the questions it raised in my mind that I had to research. The research opened my mind to the duplicity of the WTS.
Such as, the phrase "governing body" never occurs in the bible, not even in Acts 15. Yet the WTS uses this ti base a great deal of the beliefs. At the same time the WTS comments that the word "trinity" never occurs in the bible so it must not be a true teaching.
Get your free " evidence based life" booklet, it has millions of controversial options..It's all in the free give away booklet " The Evidence Based Life" And it's all based on sellout facts. Of course it's " updated regularly" and in three years things can change.
So get " The Evidence Based Life" not on your grandparents horse and cart,but on your mobile phone, and learn why your grandparents dated ovbious evidence was outdated.
So I see this thread has been hijacked....any new conclusions?
It amazes me how anyone can be proud to call themselves a Catholic, as if it's a more admirable position than being a tiny cult like JWland.. It's amazing, a miracle really, that anyone can do research on the history of the catholic church and still want to be affiliated with that cesspool of filth. The Vatican and all its gold is literally built on the blood and gore and gullibility of the common man who knew no better than to trust someone who calls himself a pope and dresses in white pajamas. It took the Catholic church over a millenium to figure out how to stop acting like ISIS.
Edit: Didn't notice that there are 3 more pages to this thread!