We're Ashya Kings parents right?

by The Rebel 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • The Rebel
    The Rebel

    Slim you are correct I started this thread because according to the media "proton therapy" is better and more effective than old treatments" But my reason for starting the thread was, not the question of right or wrong, as many things are not black and white but something in between.

    So my reason for starting this thread was could " you" the poster have made the decision these parents did? A decision not based in retrospect that the scientists and national view was wrong, but a decision that an other country and other scientists had a different and better medical view?

    So in my opinion the question of dissent by the parents was not based on a worldview but that a nations medical " care" was more interested in preventing a smear campaign than the interests of the child.

    If what I have said is wrong, why have those investigating committees that challenged the parents not come out and said civil liberties are wrong? that individual rights to a child's medial care are a nations right? Which is in effect saying that a individual patient of a nations medical care does not have the right to accept an alternative countries health care which has different opinions on medical matters?

    I am sure my above comment may deserve a Cofty " Bollocks" in fact my point probably is " Bollicks" because my point is sometimes parents know best.

    The Rebel

  • talesin
    In general I think the viewpoint of patients should be given greater respect in health care.

    With the cutbacks in Cdn. health care, and our now 'two-tiered system', this has become increasingly apparent. Doctors have neither the time nor the inclination to LISTEN TO THE PATIENT. We are considered ignoramuses who know nothing about our own bodies. Every problem is pooh-poohed until you land in emergency when things have finally reached a crisis point, and lo and behold! The patient wasn't 'making up' that pain in the stomach/foot/head or whatever.

    I'm disgusted with health care and the arrogance of doctors. When I needed a breast reconstruction because of a blocked milk duct, I went to the 'breast clinic', spent 3 hours in education and giving my history to a resident. Finally, the reconstructive surgeon walked in, patted my arm, and said "You don't have cancer, stop making such a fuss." Yeah, I have had a suppurating incision in my breast from 2 botched surgeries, that gets regularly infected. But I don't have cancer, so need no medical intervention. *rolls eyes*

  • slimboyfat

    Not easy for me to imagine what I would do as a parent. I kind of am persuaded by this book it's not a good idea. Too many possible harmful situations to contemplate. I think only if there is a God would it be all worthwhile.


  • Daniel1555

    They did everything for their son; they loved and supported him unconditionally and at great risk and cost, they even potentially went against their religions blood doctrine.

    Of course they were right. They are great examples for parents.

    I wish this family all the best.

  • steve2

    Rebel, I acknowledge that your main question asked posters to speculate on "could" they have made the same decision as the boy's parents did and that you have had to reiterate that central question.

    Surely, looking back with the benefit of hindsight, any answer depends on what we now know about the different treatments.

    You cannot separate the two issues.

    If the boy had died, discussion would now centre around what contributed to his death, including being whisked out of hospital and kept hidden by his parents and they whisked him through Europe in defiance of specialists' orders and secular law.

    But - unexpectedly! - the boy is in fact (so far) doing well - with the proviso that remission is not necessarily a stable condition.

    I know it must be frustrating for you to have so few posters respond to your main question - but that is very likely because your main question necessarily hinges on what is now known about the different treatments, proton therapy in particular .

    It is easy to be an armchair critic - and I think it is this aspect that people try to shy away from.

  • cofty
    I don't know what really happened - SBF

    And yet 8 hours later you are still judging doctors contrary to the facts of the case.

    Steve you asserted on another thread that there was nothing the NHS could do for Aysha.

    You also have not the slightest clue about the facts.

    Talesin never misses an opportunity to condemn the medical profession.

    1- The NHS saved his life with a difficult operation to remove a tumour from his brain.

    2 - Following that up with radio and chemo typically gives a child a 70-80% chance of the cancer not coming back.

    3 - The disagreement was over the best form of radiotherapy post-operation

    4 - The family did not want conventional radiotherapy and ran away with Aysha while the doctors were still trying to work with the parents to agree a solution.

    5 - After they took the boy away a judge ruled that Aysha was still to have chemo

    6 - The parents continue to refuse that court order. It is now too late to enforce it.

    7 - Statistically Aysha's chances are now 50%

    8 - The family have a history of irrational confrontation...

  • cofty
    Can you point me to where I can find the NHS side - Azor

    Sorry it was a UK documentary a few months after the crisis. They interviewed doctors and nurses. What was clear was how stunned they all were when they discovered Aysha was gone. Although they were aware that the parents were concerned about radiotherapy as far as they were concerned they were still in the process of making decisions with the parents.

    He is in the 90 percentile due to sticking to his protocol

    That is brilliant!

    Nobody knows the outcome for any individual but it usually makes sense to load the odds in your favour by following best practice. I have questioned my treatment at times and always want to be fully informed of all the facts, but in the end the consultants have seen it a thousand times before and know what works and why.

  • slimboyfat
    And yet 8 hours later you are still judging doctors contrary to the facts of the case.


  • nicolaou
    SBF: On the other side you've got some people who want to uphold the right of scientists and experts to dictate to patients because their worldview crumbles if there's any suggestion other points of view are in any way valid.

    That's unfair Slim'. I've just got back from the John Radcliffe hospital in Oxford where my daughter had an appointment with a consultant Neurologist.

    We've dealt with many health professionals in the course of dealing with her MS and every one of them has been genuinely caring. They listen to my daughter and try to tailor her treatment to best suit her personal needs. They never 'dictate'.

    You're anonymous insults say more about you than these scientists and doctors.

  • steve2

    Cofty, thanks for reminding me that you had corrected the wrong impression that I had expressed on another thread. I took your feedback seriously in that earlier thread, realizing I needed to read more about it.

    I realized then that I had a wrong impression and needed to be more careful in my comments.

    Note that in my above comment I did not express an opinion on treatment issues at all but commented more on the main question in the OP which was could others do what the parents had done.

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