I thought this needed it's own thread.
Jane Doh Does an Excellent Rebuttal to 6 Screens of WT
That plays right in Lloyd's hand, turning the argument from him to Christians vs Atheists. What he did is universally unacceptable for an advocate of sexually abused women whether you're a Christian or Atheist
That plays right in Lloyd's hand,
This lady is pulling all kinds of excuses for Loyd out of her ass, but is twisting it to sound that his behavior is somewhat human, but at a different level than average. (We are all narcissist theory)
The result is that it is giving Loyd's behavior a "Sort" of a pass, not directly but subtly, by blaming it on some type of "Human Imperfection" - and by detracting from the real issue, by venting her anger that some have blamed Loyd's behavior on him becoming a Atheist.
Then she goes into the topic of "Christians-have done the same" excuse.
No one needs a lengthy--philosophical explanation of why Loyd did what he did.
This elicits sympathy for what Loyd did, either inadvertently or purposefully, to the point that some of the posters are even insinuating that Loyd's wife is possibly a "Swinger"
All you have to do is ask yourself; "Would I want my Spouse to do what loyd did to his wife---to do it to me?" If not----WHY NOT?
B1 Crusade ... For Lloyd, maybe him and his wife are swingers although hiding it because of embarrassment. Maybe his wife was not putting out. Maybe Lloyd like variety. There are a lot of things we don’t know and are making judgements without knowing all the facts.
This woman is definitely defending Lloyd and doesn't seem very well educated. She reasons that because ancestors of Jesus visited and we're prostitutes (Judah & Rahab) that we shouldn't be judgmental. Wow! This is pretty lame reasoning.
She is on the wrong tract for recovery and I hope no one takes this woman's reasoning seriously.
The fact is that Lloyd is a sex addict and like all addicts they form maladaptive relationships with experiences, & substances instead of with people. These impossible relationships with objects are guaranteed to produce a mood altering experience.... everytime; unlike real relationships that do not produce at a 100% rate . The one thing the addiction cannot do is give you love back - which is a legitimate and healthy mood altering experience.
Only real love can make you feel whole. Addictions only produce a temporary mood change that must repeatedly and more frequently be engaged in to produce desired results. This inevitably involves the insanity of doing the same thing over, and over, and over again expecting a different result that never comes. This is why addictions are called a "vise". Once enmeshed in the maladaptive relationship, the addict is powerless.
Admitting powerlessness in NOT the same thing as abdicating responsibility. Like many things in life, there may be multiple causations for things that are ultimately our responsibility to figure out and deal with. Children use excuses, adults get educated and do the heavy lifting that will give their life meaning, value and texture, which is sometimes rough. But, it is authentic and not fake.
12 step programs like Celebrate Recovery (there are hundreds of meetings in the USA every week) help people to get their mind off of themselves through a number of different ways. People are helped to understand that gratification is a by-product of relationship and should be sought indirectly (not directly) through devices such as empathy, service , community & relationship.
MANY JW born-ins experienced very robotic, mechanical upbringings and are literally starving for genuine relationships and healing from being raised by emotionally shut-down, emergency minded parents. JW born-ins must learn the mechanics of addiction in my opinion so that they can head off in the right direction after Watchtower.
I fear that atheist XJW's who are in need of this kind of help might not want to attend a 12 step program because of references and reliance upon a "higher power". I would just say, that ANYTHING that helps us get our mind off ourselves and practice the habits of living a life of gratitude and thankfulness for the loving relationships we have (or might have) is definitely time well spent and will get positive results.
All 3 examples this lady uses are pre-Christian and date from the Old Testament.
Rahaab was a pagan and a harlot so what, she wasn't a Christian or a Jew and never introduced in any concept of Biblical morality.
Jude lived before the Mosaic Law when everyone did as they pleased
As regards this arguments about Josiah I never heard this argument but then again Solomon had 1000 wives against God's wishes
Lloyd may be an atheist, but he worships himself.
I think Jane is basically saying all the Christians who rang up Rick Fearon on the Six Screens were saying Lloyd did this because he's an athiest (sigh) may be wrong.
Funny enough it descended into hilarious dick slinging contest about who was a witness longer, who has more JW relatives and who did more pioneer hours at the end 🤣😭it starts at 2:18:17
Sea Breeze that's an excellent piece of analysis and I tend to agree with you. I have some reservations around 12 steps only because some will shun people who relapse and there's an element of policing others. But otherwise everything you said is spot on. I found it very interesting how you describe JW parents as 'shut down' because they're emergency minded...so so true.
I have some reservations around 12 steps only because some will shun people who relapse and there's an element of policing others.
I have never heard of shunning existing in 12 step programs. Participants do occasionally get accountability partners on a voluntary basis. But, it the opposite of shunning. It's all about getting real and shining light on the issue and getting things out of the darkness and secrecy. Dysfunction happens in secrecy. Healing happens in community.
I found it very interesting how you describe JW parents as 'shut down' because they're emergency minded...so so true.
I also call this a "bunker" mentality; or sometimes a "siege" mentality. Little kids who grow up like this are imprinted and can easily live the rest of their lives in a state of emergency unless they work to embrace a different reality.
People who joined the JWs past the age of 8 to 12 are different. They have something psychologically to go back to once they leave. Us born-ins have to fight our way out of the paper bag veneer that we got saddled with.
In the video she says that: “to say if you’re Christian you would not do what Lloyd did, that’s narcissistic”.
She is right. But it’s not about that. That is a view that implies that the mere label “Christian” makes them feel like they are on a moral high ground and prevents them from doing certain things. It does not prevent them. What prevents people from doing certain things is if they feel strongly about not wanting to hurt and disappoint someone, in this case God.
If you’re married but it’s just a label for you and you don’t really care about your wife’s/husband’s feelings, then you will do things that you know could hurt them if they found out. However, if you really love your wife/husband you would never want to do anything that would hurt them. Similarly, if you truly love your God, and don’t want to hurt him, then you will not put yourself deliberately in a situation where you might do something that you know your God would be upset about.
An atheist has no such regard for some supreme being, the only regard they might have is for said wife/husband. In the case under discussion, evidently atheist Lloyd didn’t even have that.