All 144,000 are on earth while the Great Multitude is in heaven

by Doug Mason 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Why do the 144,000 need sealing?

    What does it mean that the angels hold back the winds so that the sealing can take place?

    Where is the Great Multitude?


  • Magnum

    Thanks again. I don't think you realize how much the material you share with us is used and appreciated.

    edited to add: OK. I just read the material. Makes sense. It amazes me how different something can be when not read through JW lenses.

  • John Aquila
    John Aquila

    144k on earth - great crowd in heaven

    LOL Doug

    I couldn't stop laughing. 40 years in the WT and I never caught that.

  • Crazyguy
    The 144000 are part of the great crowd.
  • Divergent

    Rev 14: 4 - These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins

    Doug... what does this part mean to you?

  • prologos

    of course there is the cross reference that has the same 144 000 (I hope) go where ever Jesus the lamb went, and he was launched up -ity beyond the clouds. but wait, he will come back in the same manner, so the 144 k with him?

    we;come home?safe landing?

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason


    My take on John is that he has a Jewish background, or is at least highly tolerant of Jews. He is well versed in the Hebrew Scriptures; with every verse either quoting or alluding to them (not that there was a Hebrew Canon at the time). When he says the 144,000 are from the Hebrew tribes/families, I believe that is precisely what he means. If the 144,000 were literal - as the WTS says - then its composition is literal.

    I see the writer as a mysoginist - his women are harlots and "Jezebel" while the 144,000 are not "defiled" with women. He is not a balanced individual.

    The Watch Tower says of the 144,000 that they are neither men nor women:

    "These all must receive a change of nature at their resurrection, being made partakers together of 'divine nature,' in which state none will be women, for there is no female sex among spirit creatures." (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, page, art. “Women”)

    So they become gods, partakers of the divine nature.

    We do not know who the writer was. The book was one of many apocalypses written at the time and it had great trouble being accepted by the church as Scripture.

    It is a dangerous book to base one's beliefs on.

    If you have the opportunity, read: "A History of the End of the World: How the Most Controversial Book in the Bible Changed the Course of Western Civilization", by Jonathan Kirsch


  • cappytan
    Prove it without using a publication of questionable authenticity (aka the bible).
  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason


    Thank you for your kind words. I sincerely hope that I inspire people to undertake their own study and come to their own conclusions - provided they are willing to adjust their understandings as they keep ever learning.

    I do not want anyone to blindly accept what I or anyone else writes, but that each will take charge of their own thinking.

    For the past 50 years, my intention has always been to sever the mental umbilical cord that connects the Watch Tower Society with people's minds, and to help people to set themselves free.


  • jhine

    Doug , can I ask why you say that the writer sees all women as harlots and " Jezebel " .

    The WT seems to ignore the first few verses of ch 21

    " Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth , for the first heaven añd the first earth had passed away "

    Now I suppose that the WT sees that in terms of Government , but the next bit

    " there was no longer any sea " would indicate that what was seen as the canopy , sky , between heaven and earth had gone . Sea was used to depict the heavens in the sense of the sky . So the boundary between heaven and earth was removed . Then

    " I saw the Holy City , the new Jerusalem , coming down out of the heaven from God , prepared as a bride , beautifully dressed for her husbànd ..And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying " Now the dwelling of God is with men , and he will live with them ... "

    So anyone before the throne is on the new earth . Heaven and earth merge .


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