Whatever happened to Sue Pamela Carne AKA Paula Combs AKA suspected CIA operative??

by OrphanCrow 6 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • OrphanCrow

    Moscow. 1983.

    William Plunkert. Diplomat at the US embassy in Moscow.

    Sue Pamela Carne - American Jehovah's Witness woman employed as governess to Plunkert

    Moscow charges CIA link to religious activist

    MOSCOW -- An American governess in the U.S. Embassy was a CIA agent who formed a religious group that equated the Soviet Union with the 'antichrist' and called for its destruction in a nuclear war, the Tass news agency said.
    In a dispatch Thursday, the official news agency identified the woman as Sue Pamela Carne but give no age or hometown. The embassy said Miss Carne worked as a governess for William Plunkert, 2nd secretary in the political section.
    'There was an incident involving the Soviet authorities but I cannot go into the nature of it at all,' an embassy spokesman said, adding that Miss Carne has left the Soviet Union.
    Tass said Miss Carne was caught in a May 15 police raid on an illegal meeting in Kalinin of a group called 'Jehovah's Witnesses-Ilyinites.'
    It said the group, formed at Miss Carne's initiative, organized 'subversive work against the U.S.S.R. under the pretext of the struggle against the antichrist.'
    The agenda at the May 15 meeting included 'how to bring about sooner a world nuclear war in which the antichrist -- that is the Soviet state system -- should be destroyed,' Tass said.
    Tass accused Miss Carne of using her civilian position at the embassy as a cover for the CIA. It called her 'an emissary of a clerical organization which is closely connected with the CIA and has headquarters in the United States.'
    It did not further identify the organization.
    According to the agency, Miss Carne distributed material to sect members that 'were meant for subsequent copying and illegal circulation among Soviet citzens.'
    She also, 'without batting an eyelid,' distributed large sums of Soviet rubles to build a cooperative flat for illegal gatherings and equip it with typewriters, copiers, and tape recorders, Tass said.
    Tass said Miss Carne presents no problem since she has left the Soviet Union, but said Plunkert has some explaining to do.
    'How could a modest governess manage to keep in his (Plunkert's) apartment those materials that were taken from her when she was detained?' Tass asked.
    'How will Mr. William Plunkert explain that he employed as a governess in his family the emissary of the notorious organization connected with the CIA?' it asked.

    As it turns out, William Plunkert was later exposed as a CIA operative during his time in Moscow:

    How the CIA ran a ‘billion dollar spy’ in Moscow

    ...the future of the operation was put in the hands of Bill Plunkert. After a stint as a Navy aviator, Plunkert had joined the CIA and trained as a clandestine operations officer. He was in his mid-30s, 6-foot-2, and had arrived at the Moscow station in the summer. His mission was to give the slip to the KGB and make contact.

    Sue Pamela Carne, Plunkert's governess, went by the alias "Paula Combs" while she was posing as a language student at Moscow's Pushkin Institute.


    The U.S. Embassy confirmed that Miss Carne had been detained and had left the country. But a spokesman said because of the privacy law, he could not discuss the case. , , . '.' Her employer, William G. Plunkert, a diplomat in the embassy's political section, could not be reached for comment immediately. Tass said she was known to the Jehovah's Witnesses in Kalinin as Paula Combs, a Russian-language student at the Pushkin Institute in Moscow, but her identity papers established her true identity.
  • darkspilver


    Over the decades, there have been a smattering of media articles reporting various deportations of WatchTower Society Missionaries from countries whose U.S.A.-opposed governments had claimed that such Jehovah's Witness Missionaries had been discovered to have been connected with the C.I.A. Nearly everyone has always dismissed such claims as ludicrous given the Jehovah's Witnesses own well-publicized issues with the Government of the United States, and the widespread impression that Jehovah's Witnesses would never ever partner with a governmental entity to further its own goals. However, given that the WatchTower Society was only recently discovered to have officially affiliated itself in 1992 with the United Nations, an organization which the JWs had strongly condemned for decades, the details of a 1983 deportation of a Jehovah's Witness from the U.S.S.R. may indicate that such previous assessments should not have been made so hastily.

    Sometime in 1981, an American Jehovah's Witness, named Sue Pamela Carne, described as "in her 20s", arrived in Moscow, Russia, to work as a "governess" for an unidentified "American Diplomat". In 1982, Sue P. Carne was assigned by the American Embassy to work for William G. Plunkert, who may have replaced the person to whom Carne had previously been assigned. Plunkert has been identified as the then Second Secretary of the Political Section at the American Embassy, which in turn supposedly identifies Plunkert as a C.I.A. operative. By only May 1983, possibly in less than two years, the Russian K.G.B. had already gathered enough intelligence on Sue Carne sufficient to arrest and deport her out of the country.

    According to Associated Press reports, Sue Carne was accused of organizing and training a "cell" of Jehovah's Witnesses in the city of Kalinin, which is about 90 miles northwest of Moscow. (Clint Eastwood's 1982 movie FIREFOX will give readers a good feel for what life and travel was like in and around Moscow during this time period.) Soviet officials claimed that Carne had organized, trained, and funded the "cell" while using the alias "Paula Combs". "Paula Combs" had posed in Kalinin as a Russian-language student studying at Moscow's Pushkin Institute. Carne/Combs supposedly supplied the Kalinin group of JWs with banned WatchTower literature, typewriters, tape recorders, and other duplicating equipment, along with funds used to construct a headquarters building -- all of which may indicate that the Kalinin group may have been more than just a local operation.

    If one wants to pursue the theory that Sue Pamela Carne was simply a young, single American female who was coincidentally an extremely devout Jehovah's Witness, who wanted the adventure of moving to a then despotic communist country where practicing her own WatchTower religion was outlawed, in order to eek out a living as a "governess", then one must first explain how Carne obtained the necessary diplomatic "security clearances" required for her to be hired and sent to an enemy foreign country to live with and work for a high level C.I.A. operative. In all likelihood, simply being a "Jehovah's Witness" would normally have been an automatic disqualifier.

    Then there are questions as to how a "governess" was able to accomplish so much, in so short a period of time, seemingly indicating that Carne had hit the Russian ground running. Her quick accomplishments would seem to indicate that Carne was not only an extraordinary individual with extraordinary intelligence and abilities, but she also would seem to have needed special training in multiple unrelated but coordinated areas that neither the C.I.A. nor the WatchTower Society could have provided individually. It also would seem that Carne's quick accomplishments would have required the support and cooperation of quite a pre-established network both inside and outside the American Embassy. And, if the K.G.B.'s accusations pointed in the right direction, the even better question is whether Carne was a C.I.A.-trained WatchTower operative, or was Carne a WatchTower-trained C.I.A. operative? And, if either the former or latter is true, in how many other "enemy countries" over the decades has the C.I.A. actively promoted and furthered the WatchTower religion as one of its multiple avenues of weakening those countries' governments and social systems?


  • OrphanCrow

    I apologize for the double post.

    I made a post over 24 hours ago and it queued so I waited until I woke up this morning to re-post it again. When yesterday's post didn't appear, I made this thread.

    How many hours (days?) should a person wait for posts to appear after they queue??

    **edit - aarrrgh. Now i am getting my own posts mixed up...

  • darkspilver

    I believe it used to be 2 new thread topics and 20 posts within any 24 hour period

    Although I think that remains 'in principle' - the forum now takes into account the speed of your posts.

    So it is best to wait as long as possible between new topics, which I believe has the strictest 'time' criteria applied to it.

    If you post two new topics close together, the first will appear, but the second will be queued for up to 24 hours, but you can probably wait 12 hours and post a third new topic which gets to appear straight-away, before the second topic that was posted earlier gets to appear

    With posts, just try not to post too quickly one after the other.

    I think I'm on half-rations though - 1 new topic and 10 posts allowed per 24 hour period, and my 'up-votes' don't appear to be counted either (they disappear when I check back, including on other devices)

  • Are you serious
    Are you serious

    With things we've learned regarding WT such as Malawi, Mexico and UN situations it is very likely they have been involved with these type of operations in some way or another. Thank you Orphancrow and Darkspilver for this information!

  • OrphanCrow

    You are welcome, Serious.

    More information on this thread here:


    *yeah, darkspliver, I thought I had waited past the 24 hour stretch but maybe not...oh well

  • Londo111

    If true, what this person taught was "apostasy". While the Soviet Block was "King of the North", and while perhaps antichrist not not "The Antichrist". And of course, the "King of the North" was supposed to meet its end at Armageddon along with every other nation at the hands of God, not get nuked.

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