Do we have double standards about JWs?

by Skeptic 38 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  amac

  while we were kind of taught that the Protestants were to be pitied (with kindness and tact), we were never instructed in any way shape or form to look down on them. While we were taught to be proud and happy of the fact that we were in the "true" religion and on the "narrow road", we never were taught to denigrate the contributions non-Catholics made to society. Loving tolerance was stressed; even while we were to pray and hope for those not of our faith to join us, we were never instructed to look down on them. Now, I realize the Catholic church came down hard on the JWs in the past, but one can hardly blame them as the WTS frequently and blatantly attacked the Catholic church.

  The same CAN NOT be said of Witnesses.

  Beryl, that sounds EXACTLY like the way JWs are taught. At least that was the way I was taught for 30 years. The whole reason why JWs are taught to go door to door was out of love for people in other religions. I never heard any instruction or teaching that at all suggested you look down on people that weren't JWs (unless of course they were ex-JWs.)

  Dedalus -

  Pseudo-intellects are not an organized religion thriving on the anticipation of the imminant deaths of billions and billions of people, including children and babies. Witnesses are in just such an organized religion.

  Do you think this difference unimportant?

  No I don't, I think you make a good point. Let me rephrase then...actually I can't quite remember exactly what my original phrase was, but replace "pseudo-intellects" with "the organizers of many other religions" and see if that works.

  And on a side note, in JWs defense, I think your above statement is unfair. I don't know a single JW that is "thriving on the anticipation of the imminant deaths of billions and billions of people, including children and babies." Every single one I know is thriving on the survival of themselves and their family.
• 

  Skeptic

  I feel that JWs are unfairly held up to higher standards than they should be. Whilst most of us have been hurt by JWs in one way or another, I think that we sometimes forget that they are no less human than we are. Sure, they put themselves up on a pedestal, but many I know are good, caring people, who think that they are serving God. After all, we were all JWs once, didn't we try to do things as best we could. Were we all perfect, or did we make mistakes now and then? Does being an ex-JW make us somehow more superior to JWs? I don't believe we are. Regardless of our religion or culture, we are all humans trying to make the best of what we've got.

  Prisca, I agree.

  Richard
• 

  logansrun

  Skeptic,

  I agree wholeheartedly, although it is true that we might "pick on" the JWs simply because of our past involvement with them. If I was a former Mormon I would probably be harsher on the Mormon Church because of their harm done to me.

  That being said, I admit I get very annoyed when people make ridiculous remarks about the JWs and try and use fallacious material to criticise them. For example, one ex-JW website I saw said that JWs are not allowed to watch fireworks. Of course, they were exaggerating the fact that JWs would not celebrate US Independence Day, but I grew up a JW and watched fireworks all the time. So, their argument was not only weak, but inaccurate.

  I also get annoyed when I hear someone say that JWs are all unfriendly or that they condone child abuse. That is a tremendous distortion of the facts that only does more harm than good.

  Bradley
• 

  waiting

  1. JW religious beliefs - I think they should be nailed to the wall for them....because they're wrong, they cause pain.........and they've slammed everyone else.

  2. JW persons. They are individuals, just like we are. The Good, the Bad & the Ugly. I think some of us slam them as a group....because they're JW's. I disagree. Not ALL elders' wives are gossips. Not ALL pioneers live off foodstamps. Not ALL jw's look down on everyone else.....well, many do.

  I remember a talk being given in our KH about "there's good people in all organizations." Why was the talk necessary? Because individual jw's were looking at outsiders as "good people"....and the WTBTS decided they needed to address that issue. After stating the first part, it was added "but these good people are still in a False Religious Organization. Therefore, adhere to the scriptural council stating *bad association spoils useful habits*. "

  Perhaps that's how jw's should be viewed. As people in a false religious organization. But judged as people. Afterall............that's what all of us were. For the most part, we're the same people. Sure, some changes - but the core personality is still intact.

  Oh, but if we apply scriptural council........we would want to avoid jw's altogether, though.

  Howdy Essie! Good to see you........and/or your Ghost!

  waiting
• 

  Jayson

  Yes I am prejudice when The organization of Jehovah Witnesses are part of any issue. They should not be trusted as a group. That does not mean that every JW rapes or eats their young? No; But if one does then will that person be brought to justice? How can I trust any group who considers themselves to be above the law? With what I know about them now I would be willfully stupid to trust them. I would be a hipocrite to call them "just another" religion. They, [JW's] are like any other addict. They could leave/quit anytime they want to. The problem is they can't want to.

  (If that makes me a bigot in your eyes then to you that is what I am.)

  Jay
• 

  dedalus

  Amac,

  Let me rephrase then...actually I can't quite remember exactly what my original phrase was, but replace "pseudo-intellects" with "the organizers of many other religions" and see if that works.

  Yup, that works for me. Since I'm intimately acquainted with the world of Witnesses, that tends to be the religion I focus on, though.

  I don't know a single JW that is "thriving on the anticipation of the imminent deaths of billions and billions of people, including children and babies." Every single one I know is thriving on the survival of themselves and their family.

  The survival of themselves and their family from what? From Armageddon, the Great War of the Mighty Jah that will cause the blood to flow like a river in the streets (I am practically quoting Watchtower articles, convention talks, Kingdom Ministries, et cetera). Witnesses read and parrot and distribute literature proclaiming the great news of this genocide all the time -- why? -- in order to save themselves and their families.

  "The masses of people facing annihilation if they fail to respond to the good news include out unbelieving relatives, neighbors, workmates, schoolmates, and acquaintances. But our concern is to reach out to ‘all sorts of men’ in imitation of God, who manifested his love for the entire world by giving his Son, Jesus Christ, as a ransom for all (John 3:16). We must zealously invite all to flee to God’s place of safety. By fully carrying out the preaching work, we can avoid bloodguilt." – Kingdom Ministry, September 2000, p. 1

  It isn't, of course, that Witnesses think exclusively of blood and genocide all of the time -- in fact, much of their thinking on this subject is softened by euphemisms in their day to day lives. Consider the quote above. Does it mention blood and genocide? Well sort of -- the annihilation of an entire range of people, including young "schoolmates." But phrases like "flee to God's place of safety" quickly soothe over exactly what it is Witnesses are fleeing from -- the death of every single non-Witness. Sure, Witnesses don't come off in person like bloodthirsty vampires. But when it comes to genocide, they believe in it, hope for it, wait eagerly for it.

  Is it wrong to criticize individual Witnesses for clinging to their faith? Sure. They're criticized by us far less harshly than we are by them.

  Waiting,

  JW persons. They are individuals, just like we are. The Good, the Bad & the Ugly. I think some of us slam them as a group....because they're JW's. I disagree. Not ALL elders' wives are gossips. Not ALL pioneers live off foodstamps. Not ALL jw's look down on everyone else.....well, many do.

  Agreed. However, all Witnesses slam us ex-Witnesses as a group -- we are, to each and every Witness, filthy, vile apostate dogs that have returned to their vomit and aren't worth saying hello to. (And any Witness who disagrees with this sentiment will soon be one of us. ) People here have a variety of views about Witnesses and are allowed to express them without repercussions in their personal lives. Witnesses, on the other hand, have one view of apostates and aren't allowed to express any views to the contrary without risking the safety of their personal lives. Big difference.

  Logansrun,

  That being said, I admit I get very annoyed when people make ridiculous remarks about the JWs and try and use fallacious material to criticise them. For example, one ex-JW website I saw said that JWs are not allowed to watch fireworks. Of course, they were exaggerating the fact that JWs would not celebrate US Independence Day, but I grew up a JW and watched fireworks all the time. So, their argument was not only weak, but inaccurate.

  I agree with you -- there are enough really awful things to complain about without going nuts about the viewing or nonviewing of fireworks. (Although I must confess that I was not allowed to watch fireworks, was physically "disciplined" by my father for pulling one of those noisemakers at a family gathering on the 4th, and, when I was older, was spoken to by an elder for going to a 4th of July fireworks show with a sister from another congregation. Make of that what you will.)

  There's no need to quibble about such things when the religion preaches a doctrine of world genocide. Fireworks is small beans compared to that.

  Prisca,

  I feel that JWs are unfairly held up to higher standards than they should be.

  You mean the standards they set for themselves and the rest of the world? Is it wrong to point at the people of my former congregation, who refuse to speak to me and gossip gleefully of my imminent destruction, and say, "Hey, that's really cruel and inhuman for people in a religion that's supposed to be based on love!" Is it wrong to point out the hypocrisy of a group of people who characterize everyone else in the world as a "goat," when their behavior is so "goatish" they hope for the climax of death that is Armageddon?

  Sure, they put themselves up on a pedestal, but many I know are good, caring people, who think that they are serving God.

  Good and caring for whom? For each other exclusively. And that "thought" they have -- that they are serving God -- makes them do cruel things, inhuman things, or, at least, it makes them disposed to doing cruel and inhuman things, to anyone who doesn't become or refuses to remain part of their organization.

  After all, we were all JWs once, didn't we try to do things as best we could. Were we all perfect, or did we make mistakes now and then? Does being an ex-JW make us somehow more superior to JWs? I don't believe we are. Regardless of our religion or culture, we are all humans trying to make the best of what we've got.

  I was raised a Witnesses and wanted out for the entire duration of the experience. And I left, the one thing any Witness can do to redeem his or her humanity and live without bigotry and hate in the guise of "love."

  Now, going back to the original question: does the harsh criticism of a group of people who endorse mass genocide while patting themselves on the back for epitomizing Godly love constitute a "double standard"?

  I don't think so. But hey, that's just me.

  Dedalus
• 

  Skeptic

  logansun, excellent post.

  That being said, I admit I get very annoyed when people make ridiculous remarks about the JWs and try and use fallacious material to criticise them.

  That annoys me too. The JWs hang themselves. There is no need to make them look bad by exaggeration or lying.

  I also get annoyed when I hear someone say that JWs are all unfriendly or that they condone child abuse. That is a tremendous distortion of the facts that only does more harm than good.

  Again, I agree. All it does is give JWs reason to complete discredit all ex-JWs. All they have to do is point to a statement such as "they condeon child abuse" as an example to discredit all the claims of ex-JWs. Statements like "JW policies protect child molestors" or "the organization protects its interests over abused children" are more accurate and harder to dispute.

  dedalus, I noticed that your fireworks were all on the 4th. Perhaps the issue was that it was Independence Day? What if you lit them a week or a month later?

  Richard
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  Sabine

  Most of the time I just feel sorry for JWs, the majority of them have had all fellow feeling indoctrinated right out of them. I was a JW for 35+ years, but when my daughter died 99% of them kept their feelings of compassion at check, until they concured with the local elders exactly how they should react.

  I would say in my experience, the majority are sincere...sincerely brainwashed, sincerely wrong and capable of the most inhumane treatment of their fellowman.
• 

  hillary_step

  It seems to me that we can easily fall into trap of losing our objectivity of JW's quite easily because we were part of them and this could play both ways. We may be harder on them than they deserve or more indulgent than we should be dependent on our experiences within the WTS. Those who 'fade away' for example, may not have the same level of bitterness as a person painfully disfellowshipped.

  Perhaps the true measurement of our personal standards should revolve around whether we would feel as strongly about these issues were we to see another religion behaving in exactly the same way as the WTS. For example, the Eclusive Bretheren have an even more dangerous theology than the JW’s, yet are seldom mentioned anywhere.

  As for myself, though the WTS damaged both myself and my family and acknowledging that my wife and I were duped members for many years, I can honestly say that In do not feel any more angst against them than I do for the many other high control groups such as the Scientologists and the Reverend Sun Myung and his fellow Myung’s. As far as I am concerned they all need a theological enema with the aid of a stick of dynamite.

  HS