What About The Soul?

by Francois 37 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SixofNine

  OK, I was wrong in that you'd certainly have less to talk about, lol. Personally, I think you'd fill in the gap quite nicely, perhaps with a subject more tangible.

  Remember when Charlton Heston, um, Moses, came back down from the mountain the first time in the movie and his entire countenance had changed? His hair had grown long and had grey in it? He was a changed man? Something like that happens when you first touch the Light.

  LOL, now that would be worth getting the spirit for. But the question still begs, "and for what?"

  You speak in grand poobla wonder of the Light, and almost, just almost, paint an appealing picture of the glow. But I ask, where is the afterglow? I've been an observer of humans for many years now.... and there just is none. If you, good sir, have the glow due to your emotional state now, 10 years from now, if you have any glow at all, it will be because you rolled up your sleeves and got on with life, you shrugged off some of the bad shit that will happen in your life in the next 10 years, you lost 20 pounds, you started communicating better with your wife, etc etc. It won't have Jack or shit to do with the fact that you feel like you've nailed the God question or gotten the spirit.

  Btw, imo, all that, is enough. Ever notice when people spontaneously say "it doesn't get any better than this" they're almost always talking about something simple, almost mundane?

  The Light is wonderful metaphor, why screw it up with imaginary beings? Occam's Razor and all
• 

  Satanus

  Pseudo

  Interesting. Must be those damn demons

  SS
• 

  DJ

  I think that the soul is who you really are. It is not the body of flesh. It's you.
• 

  LyinEyes

  I am still searching for what I believe about this also.

  SS wrote:Some people think that dreams are the break that the soul takes from the body.

  This is very interesting to me,,,,,,,,the whole subject of dreams. I almost always remember my dreams and enjoy them very much.

  I have had a few experiences with what is called lucid dreaming. I one time,,,,,,feel into a deep sleep,,,,right before a meeting I remember,, and began dreaming. I then felt myself, floating, it was the most pleasurable feeling, so light , so painfree,,,,,,I was above my own bed,,,,,,,,,, I knew I was sleeping and knew I was dreaming, or in some kind of altered state , more conscience of everything ,unlke regular dreaming.

  I heard someone knock at the door, I heard the phone ring 3 times,,,,,,,, yet I was still in this floating state of dreaming, or whatever it was, and I couldnt really wake up, not sure if I wanted to.

  When I did awake , I remembered it all, and when I awoke, it was not from this state I spoke of, I did fall into quiet sleep .

  I later asked my husband if the phone rang, how many times, and who was at the door. I told him I was not awake but in some weird state of floating, dreaming, but could not move , but I wouldnt say I was awake either.

  I told him when I went to lay down and he told me when these things happened,,,,and it was an hour or so before i woke up.

  I do wonder if this is what some say is that feeling, you might have when you die, you see yourself, as if you are floating above yourself.

  I wonder as you said the scientist are saying, you may have moments of the soul , leaving the body more than just at times of death?
• 

  Vivamus

  Francois,

  There is only one truth - and it cannot be claimed by two different groups teaching two different "truths."

  Why would you assume that men can find the truth? There are endless possibilities, and endless theories about the soul, men, god, satan, death and afterlife. Why would _one_ man, _one_ scroll have "the truth" about it?

  My personal belief ... reigion was created by men, in order to achieve order, and in order to create a false sense of security in death. Every men and women on this planet has struggled with questions about life, and even more with questions about death, death is the great unknown, and people wish to get some idea what's it all about before they cross that line themselves. Will their essence remain, their soul, their spirit....

  But the fact remains, no one ever returned from death. Near death experiences can be explained with science, and they can also be explained with religion. There is not one logical, exclusive answer to the questions.

  So I don't know. And I like being able to say that. I don't know, I do not follow one dogma given to me by one man. My mind is open to all theories, yet I accept none. Let the great unknown remain unknown, I'll find out eventually. [Or not ]
• 

  Guest 77

  Francois, who eats soul food? Soul people?

  Guest 77
• 

  Abaddon

  proplog2 put it better than I could.

  To me the idea that something like the soul could be unprovable is too convenient. It's like god being unprovable being just too convenient.

  If no one had ever mentioned god o the soul to you, and someone came to your door and said there's an invisable thing inside you that never dies and that if you want your invisable thing to go somewhere nice when your body is done with, you have to do as it says in this book so invisable magic man will let you in... well, you'd laugh.

  If it mattered, we'd know about it. As all we have is wishful thinking and anecdotal 'evidence', it seems to me that belieiving in a soul is a lifestyle choice. If it makes you happy, good luck to you.
• 

  rocketman

  Basically, I've felt the way the jws teach, namely, man is a soul.

  But, there are some troubling questions, and Psuedo touched on one that I've thought about many times - the 'parable' of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Even if this was just a parable, why did Jesus use such symbolisms? As Pseudo said, a parable draws upon things already known by the listeners, otherwise the meaning becomes obscure.

  Also, there is Matthew 10:28, which Xena mentioned, though Luke 12:4 is worded differently and thus may make what Jesus said more clear. And yet, why does one need to cross-reference one to get the real meaning of the other? That's something that's always confused me about the Bible.
• 

  Mary

  I'm starting to believe that we HAVE a soul, not that we simply ARE a soul and there are many cases in the bible that seem to indicate that something goes on after death.

  Elijah resurrected the little boy of the widow and it says that "his soul came back into to him."

  Here's a couple of links that seems to dispute the JW teachings that at death, that is the end of it:

  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7017/soulsleep.html

  http://www.globalserve.net/~bumblebee/ecclesia/soulslep.htm
• 

  Blueblades

  Hi Francois! I myself have come to no conclusions about the soul.I would like to hear your thoughts on what I read in Ray Franz's book "In Search of Christian Freedom"on page 706,707.

  He gives the example that the common view among many about the human soul is described by S.C.Guthrie,professor at Columbia Theological Seminary(a Presbyterian institution),in this manner:

  According to this doctrine only my body can die,but I myself do not really die.My body is only the shell of my true self.It is not me;it is only the earthly-physical prison in which the real"I" is trapped.My true self is my soul,which,because it is spiritual and not physical,is like God and therefore shares God's immortality ( inability to die).What happens at death,then,is that my immortal soul escapes from my mortal body.My body dies,but I myself live on and return to the spiritual realm from which I came and to which I really belong.

  Having said this,this respected theologian then goes on to state:If we hold to the genuinely Bibilical hope for the future,we must firmly reject this doctrine of the soul's immortality for several reasons.

  He then proceeds to detail those reasons from Scripture.Before doing so,however,he discusses the origin of the belief he first described,stating:

  This doctrine( of the soul's inherent immortality) was not taught by the biblical writer's themselves,but it was common in the Greek and Oriental religions of the ancient world in which the Christian church was born.Some of the earliest Christian theologians were influenced by it,read the Bible in the light of it and introduced it into the thinking of the church.It has been with us ever since,influencing even the reformed confessions.(see the Westminster Confessions,XXXII; the Belgic Confession,Art XXXVII).

  Ray himself goes on to say:I present this neither as conclusive nor as a view that all should accede to.To determine whether that view is convincing one would have to read and weigh the validity of his Biblical reasons,which I have not included.

  While one could find scores of other scholars who express the same viewpoint as this particular theologian,their numbers or their reputation are not decisive;one can similarly find theologians of repute who argue for a different,contrary view.

  My purpose here is not to argue the validity of the view expressed but soley to show that,though there might be the inclination to reject it out of hand as the product of"cult thinking",there are in fact reputable scholars who express that viewpoint.

  Francois,this one of the reasons I am not able to come to any conclusion,yet, on this all important subject you have raised about the SOUL!

  Blueblades