Anti-witnessing mistake by me !

by Phizzy 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Phizzy

  A couple of times while I was anti-witnessing I have made a fundamental mistake, which was to try to show the Believer that it was neither intellectually nor Scientifically necessary for there to be a Creator. The discussion got to this point because I said I was an Atheist.

  This latest time was talking to a street preacher who was not a J.W, but he did the same thing they do, i.e not really listen to the points I made, tried to rubbish Science etc.

  I have decided when, (if), this happens again I shall say something along the lines of " Whoa there ! you have done a huge leap from talking about your Bible god to the matter of a Creator, if I concede there was a Creator, how can you prove it was your god ?"

  They then resort to the Bible, to try to prove the Bible ! But wasting time on people who do not really listen, and do not think about what you present, is something I may not do much of in future, it is so frustrating !
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  cofty

  Good point. They are better dealt with as two independent questions.

  I find it amusing when theists like Wm Lane Craig — and some of his followers here — try to argue for god from theoretical physics. Even if it could be shown that the universe requires a designer, that still leaves us a million miles away from the 'god and father of Jesus'.
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  Onager

  I'm not sure that's a mistake as such. Whatever line of reasoning that you go down based on logic and evidence is going to run into the brick wall of blind belief. I reckon that if you're having fun then don't worry about it and carry on! :)
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  galaxie

  "two independent questions " merge into one answer in the jw mind. It's almost comically entertaining listening to their deluded reasoning...i flatter them by calling it reasoning.. But I can't resist cart /trolley conflabs
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  neat blue dog

  I'm a Christian, but I agree: Saying you don't believe in God shuts down the whole conversation. The most powerful way to reverse witness is to show that their own Bible contradicts their doctrine.
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  venus

  Phyzzy,

  Neither Scriptures nor Science has anything to do with the existence of Creator--both are attempts in the direction of explanation, and will ever be able to come to an ultimate conclusion: "Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve."-- Max Planck (Father of Modern Physics)
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  Giordano

  But wasting time on people who do not really listen, and do not think about what you present, is something I may not do much of in future, it is so frustrating !

  It is wasting your time and their 'rational ignorance' can't be changed until they wake up to some degree. Back away and save your breath and your best intentions for people who actually come on this site from all over the world looking for answers.

  There is a huge difference in brain washed believers and those who are waking up and come here and ask for help.

  JW's or close family who know TTATT or ay least sense it and are in dire need of advice on how to save their marriage, deal with a mate, escape the judicial star chamber. Deal with parents and other close family and friends. Work situations, health directives re the Ban on Blood. And if they should Fade and how that's done, DA or be DF and the ramifications of those choices.

  And the best thing is it's not on our shoulders alone. It's much easier to lift this weight when 4 or 5 ex JW's jump in to help in the advice process. Four or five helping out on scriptures and what the bible actually says, Four or five on science. Ethics etc.

  Here's now I think about it.....for what it's worth. You have 8 million JW's plus or minus. They all have the same message, until it changes from time to time.

  On this forum we have access to people with knowledge of just about everything. Knowledge that stands alone and is not dependent of a GB or belief in a god. And to a fault they are honest brokers of the information they have researched. The Experiences they have endured and the decisions they have made.

  Save your shoe leather........ sit at your computer and talk with those folks who want to know stuff.

  Going toe to toe with people who cling to their beliefs is the opposite of going door to doorwith the JW 'truth' and being ignored.
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  stillin

  I agree with Giordano. When people are in their comfort zones, you really can't do much to help them. Sure, drop a hint that there's another life out there that's worth looking into. They already know that, though.

  It's like trying to talk a severe agoraphobic out of their home and out to a New Year's Eve party at Times Square. They can watch on TV. That keeps things more in an abstract state than actually facing their fear.
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  EverApostate

  The subject about whether a God Exists or not , based on this Universe, is highly vague and needs a lot of intellect to discuss, IMHO

  I think a good way to make any Christian think, is to question their own Bible.

  Many Christians (Including Jws) are ignorant of the arrogance, injustice, wickedness and needless violence in the Bible. Point out those verses, and demand an answer
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  caves

  Venus- [...] "Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve."-- Max Planck (Father of Modern Physics)

  This comment from Max is one of the best , imo. Seems like no matter the religion, cult, race, ect we ourselves, no matter the way it is sliced,are part of the mystery. How can we not be. But to what degree? is my question..I digress.

  Phizzy, The same has happened to me in regard other religions(not all I've been approached with , just most). For instance, several months ago when I was super low, a good meaning person came up to me and gave me the number of a preacher. At first I thought 'how nice', and the gesture was. Except somewhere in the conversation she said that as soon as I try to go to 'church' that the Devil/Satan will start his attack on me. WELL...hahaha, F%&@ that right up the ear. I thought 'Oh No', not another religion that teaches that bullcrap. I had been open to hearing what she said ( mostly it was the interest when I was so low by a stranger that really didn't seem have an agenda) until the devil attack was brought up. Then I told her that I dont believe in a 'supposed' God that would do that. To her credit, she was nice enough to say that she understood. And most importantly she didn't just shun me as a person and when I see her she is just herself without crossing the boundary. Something Jws simply do not have the ability/want or logic/reasoning to do.