Sheep and the Goats - The Light Gets Brighter

by nmthinker 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  prologos

  Fisherman, good points, but Jesus in Math 12:50 defined His Brothers very broadly, saying : everyone that does the will of my father is my brother. which at the least would include all the second class "other sheep" jws. earthly hopers. further, Jesus saying "the least" would exclude any attempt of currying favoritism, angling for advantages from the few favoured ones.( the GB is the dispenser of divine favour, so they say).-- The 144 000 are secretly sealed by angels, so, nobody would know that a humanitarian deed happen to be done of one of them. The sheep are surprised that they did it.

  Doing a deed for the benefit of the organisation does in no way fit the description of what jesus said.
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  Fisherman

  Math 12:50 defined His Brothers very broadly, saying: everyone that does the will of my father is my brother- Prologos

  In the context on Math 12:50, it just seems to me that Jesus is only referring to spiritual relationship instead of blood relatives in a general sense although it would be also accurate to say that given wt teaching on the heavenly class of Christians, all Christians back then were Jesus' anointed brothers -I could be wrong. But neither does Mathew 12:20 invalidate what you state nor the possibility that in the aforementioned parable Jesus is referring to his brothers in the context of Hebrews 3:1, Galatians 3:15-16,26,29. At the very least wt theology defining a heavenly class and earthly class is possible.

  In my post that you are referring to, I was not showing that wt interpretation of said parable is correct, but that given that it is, it is also internally consistent.

  In the related parable ALL nations refer to Jesus as Lord-even the Jews. This is not because any one of these people standing before Jesus ever believed in Jesus at all, but because the Bible makes it crystal clear that every will see him and will have to acknowledge his authority and in that context they call him Lord. This parable only considers one facet of the basis for judgment, namely actions towards Christ's brothers -there are other facets to also consider. According to this parable though, actions towards Christ's brothers is a requirement for salvation. In his post nmt argues that: how should the so called goats have been required to act towards an entity unidentified to them and therefore in order for wt interpretation of the parable to be consistent, goats must mean jw that do not preach, etc., and does not apply to non-JW because non-jw do not recognize "jw anointed" to mean Christ's brothers. But if that was the case, it should also be the case that all nations forced to stand before Jesus in judgment should be able to argue that they did not know the identity of Jesus either, but the parable does not allow for that excuse. According to the parable, everyone -not just jw- is required to support Jesus' brothers, regardless of what that means .Although nmt linked spreadsheet purporting to show wt changing interpretation of elements in the related parable, such does not change God's requirements for salvation.
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  prologos

  support Jesus' brothers, regardless of what that means,

  I read Jesus' words to mean: help on the personal, humanitarian level, to the most helpless, sick, lowly and destitute; Not at all to support the wealthiest, the power entrenched elite of the self-appointed "anointed".

  The parable does not allow for an [that] excuse:

  If you gave because you supported an organisation, or did it because just thought of buying salvation, none of that is even mentioned by jesus, so: help the needy, because the creator might just consider that you with empathy thought to help fellow creatures, the lowest.
  
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  Fisherman

  I read Jesus' words to mean: help on the personal, humanitarian level, to the most helpless, sick, lowly and destitute;..

  In Jesus day, Jesus "brothers" refers to only those related to Jesus in the faith: his Apostles and disciples who were carrying out their assigned ministry-that is what being a Christian was all about back then. Similarly today, Jesus brothers should at least mean only those that Jesus recognizes as his followers and especially those that are of the heavenly calling mentioned in the scriptures I cited in my previous post.
  
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  Fisherman

  nmt, thanks for the chart and your research which shows the changes of wt interpretation of the parable throughout the years which has led to the interesting discussions on this thread. Appreciated.
  
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  prologos

  Fisherman, If wt would be dedicated to disperse the funds it amasses to the tasks that Jesus specified as meriting reward, -- instead from benefitting the least, it is benefitting the elite. If the 144 000 were the only brothers of Christ since Pentecost, and the sealing went on since then, there must have been 2 wt classes since then, and benefits flowing from the Other Sheep to the Anointed Sheep since then too? and: according to wt, the last anointed will be raptured before Armageddon, then Jesus will sit down for the Sheep&Goat judgement, as a review. The wt earthly class exists only since 1931? Do you not see the parable better explained as a timeless enjoinder to compassion ? rather than expiration- dated from pentecost to the end of the overlapping generation?
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  Fisherman

  Do you not see the parable better explained as a timeless enjoinder to compassion ? -Prologos
  

  No, because the setting for the parable is: 31 “When the Son of man comes ......

  
  

  ......instead from benefiting the least, it is benefiting the elite........... -Prologos
  

  That is only an accusation and an opinion.

  The identity of Jesus' brothers in the related parable should not only be a a view since salvation depends upon supporting Jesus' brothers according to said parable. So, who then are Christs brothers? (Galatians 3:26) . . .YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. . .(Galatians 3:29) . . .Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise. Logically, Jesus and all those that make up the see d are brothers.
  
  
  
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  scratchme1010

  nmthinker, thank you for sharing. I'm glad you posted the (image of your) spreadsheet. Personally I don't need any of that information for my own personal realization, but it's good to keep certain things current for in case I need to talk to any of my JW family members.
  
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  prologos

  wt writers have made this parable a very narrow, scary triage scenario. At the present this "sitting down for judgement" will happen at the end of the overlapping anointed generation. With another Fredrik Franz carrying the baton of life, that will take us into ~2075, a nice centennial to throw wj land into an end-of-the-world franzy. This current light light really says: thanks for the money, the time folks, but sorry you did not live during the judgement session.

  Would not the stumbling of wt from one erroneous doctrine version to another disqualifies them from from being family to the ones that can not err, lie? and then the cheerful givers concentrate on the least, and not on the already glorious ones?
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  prologos

  The unusual feature of the sheep in the parable is, that they are surprised at the true importance of their humanitarian deed to the needy ones. They ask for an explanation: " when did we--"

  Wt has taken the surprise out of that coming judgement, by declaring themselves to be the needy ones.

  If ever there will be such a judgement, any help, money given to the fake least ones will obviously not classify those deceived as sheep,

  wt, by making the gifts predictable, wt has taken the surprise out of giving. taken the

  prospective life from the sheep, by falsifying the detail and spirit of the scripture.

  PS: as a matter of fact the supporters of the fake least ones would be compelled to say: "when did we not feed you, --- hey, we gave all to your supposed brothers, the top guys--" who did say that in the parable? you are right, the goats. wt magic, turning sheep into goats without them realizing it, done by false doctrines.