Living as Christians at the C.L.A.M this week

by Truthexplorer 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • TMS

    In 1995 three disfellowshipped young men in their early 20's were given appointments for individual reinstatement hearings scheduled just 15 minutes apart. They all arrived at the Kingdom Hall in separate cars, not interacting in the parking lot.

    As the first young man exited the hall after just a few minutes, he gave a thumbs up to the other two.

    Within an hour, all three had been reinstated.

    Had all three miraculously demonstrated repentance at the same time? How did the committee know that the hearings would be so brief that they could schedule them that close together? Isn't the operation of holy spirit wonderful?

  • airborne

    The Watchtower is a brutal organization. They truly are a "ravenous wolf" (Jesus speaking of the false prophets that would arise).

    They are an Abuser in every sense of the word.


    If I am not mistaken, the current thinking is to DF and then reinstate. At least that's how the Elder's School videos make it seem. I'm not an Eldub, so I wouldn't know.



  • Fisherman

    the current thinking is to DF and then reinstate

    Although elders are given the power of discretion in JC decisions, they also must follow guidelines, in other words they must df under certain circumstances although it would appear that the person repented. For example, a person comes back to the KH after 16 years and confesses he joined the army, killed a couple of hundred people, married a couple of times but now is living with someone different, abuses drugs, tobacco, alcohol, and steals, and now he repented and wants to be accepted in the community after 16 years of being away. But he confesses, he did not get snagged. Have we got news for this fellow! Well, he has to stop what he was doing, come to meetings, wait 6 months or longer and then he can request to be reinstated.-But in the mean time....... - Sometimes there is a reason other than true repentance for a confession and that reason may not be determined at the hearing so confession does not secure that the sinner will not be DF.

    Say a person is a first offender that has been practicing sexual immorality for years and now he confesses and wants to come clean. That person could be shown mercy and publicly R at the discretion of the committee. Or maybe he committed adultery or some other unholy act or even practiced it ,he could also only be publRe. but it depends. Sometimes a person confessed because he got snagged and is shown mercy anyway.

    With repeat offenders, and someone that was PR before and has not stopped has shown that he is not repentant and therefore, this time...... But the rule is not to df and then reinstate. The rule is that is is better to make a mistake and show mercy given that it fall within the guidelines of that case. But if a person commits a gross sin and immediately confesses, that is proof right there that the person is repentant. And he should not be DF inspite of other disciplinary actions taken against him.

    A JC is not about acquitting someone or finding alleged sinner guilty although guilt must be established before there is any basis for taking judicial action (But if you have come this far, you are guilty I bet) It is about the person's heart and whether he is repentant.

    If you are a male JW, you are through. It does not matter whether you are DF or reproved especially if you are and elder or leader. You lost your respect and you will never recover. True you can be appointed elder in time and time heals all wounds but face it, you are disgraced and things will never be the same again .

    If you are a female it is hard enough finding a mate if you are a sister in the org. Many sister never find mates. Now, who would want to get yoked with a problematic sister that was dF given better choices?

    Bottom line is that it makes some difference whether you are DF or PR but not much. Both get disciplined and disgraced. When it does make a big difference is if your immediate JW family are unbalanced. Certain conduct cannot be tolerated from people living with you -JW or not so- and saying DF is harsh should not be used as a pretext so you can do whatever the heck you want in relation to your immediate relatives and expect to be treated the same. But everything considered JW family members need to be kind to DF family members if they want to help them.

    NOTE: My remarks above are only about the human consequences of DF and does not address the "spiritual" aspect, etc.. of DF.

  • ToesUp

    "If you commit a grevious error you are subject to public punishment from the body of elders.

    If Watchtower leadership commits a grievious error, they are not punished nor do they face any consequences." get DF'd if YOU make a mistake but when it's THEM...."it's an organization made up of imperfect men." How many times do we hear that one. It's a cop out!

    I don't buy it! Double standards are a common theme with the JW's. Too many contradictions to even keep up with.

  • Fisherman

    If Watchtower leadership commits a grievious error, they are not punished nor do they face any consequences."

    If they commit a sin they face the same consequences as any John Pub would.

  • ThinkerBelle

    I poured my heart out at my JC and the edlers didn't seem to pay much attention......I'm pretty sure they had their mind made up before I even walked in to that meeting. I was told that I wasn't do 3 imperfect men determine that??? These elders were the kind that lead thwir hall with iron fists and they wanted no incidents........but after me, there was a string of people that got trouble.

    I was young at the time and immediately did what I had to to get back in, but my reinstatement took a long time because the elders in my new hall didn't (or wouldn't) take the time to contact the other hall even though they said they were going to reinstate me, but needed to talk to the othwr elders firat. Took about 6 weeks before they finally did it.

    Such a screwed up process!!

  • ttdtt

    So far I see no correlation to the CLAM with how to actually follow the lifestyle of Jesus. Do any of you?

  • Truthexplorer

    It means going to the meetings for 6 months or more and to stop what you were doing that got you df. -But the elders look for evidence of God's Holy Spirit

    Fisherman- I get the whole idea about repentance and works befitting repentance, and obviously keeping the Congregation clean; but what I don't get is why an individual continues to be shunned having sincerely expressed their heartfelt desire to return to God?

    1 Cor 5:11 says - But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. NIV

    Obviously, if it came to light that the returned individual was STILL PRACTICING the above, then the Christians are not associate with the individual in line with scripture.

    But the person who earnestly wishes to return to Jehovah and has changed their life around to do so; why not welcome such a one back with open arms and a warm Christian welcome, instead of a cold watchtower shoulder!, yet obviously not allow that person reinstatement or privileges for a period of time until they have proven to everyone works that befit repentance. That would be more loving and appropriate at the same time. Why the need for complete shunning?? That is out of line with the story Jesus told about the prodigal son!

  • ToesUp

    "If they commit a sin they face the same consequences as any John Pub would."

    Oh, Really? Not according to the Shepherd the Flock Book, page 38.

    "If it comes to light or an appointed brother confesses that he has committed a disfellowshipping offense years in the past: The body of elders may determine he can continue to serve if the following is true: The immorality or other serious wrongdoing occurred more than a few years ago, and he is genuinely repentant, recognizing that he should have come forward immediately when he sinned. (Perhaps he has even confessed to his sin, seeking help with his guilty conscience.) He has been serving faithfully for many years, has evidence of God's blessing, and has the respect of the congregation."

    Looks to me as if these sinners get a Get out of Jail free card. The double standards are incredible in this organization and if you don't see it you are completely BLIND!

    I have watched several young family members and friends get PR and DF'd and the same did not apply to them. I have never shared this above info to a family member but I believe one day I will. Try explaining this quote to the ones who were punished. This is the stuff that is kept confidential and is not to be seen by the congregation. You see, if Brother Elders kids gets PR'd or DF'd, Daddy knows all the inside scoop with the Elders instruction book. The average publisher and parents of a minor is not privy to this info. The kid/adult goes to the Elders with his/her heart in the hand, thinking they will have their "head greased with oil" but they walk out with their mouths hanging open. They don't know what hit em. We have witnessed this first hand and to say the publishers get the same treatment as the Elders/GB is BS.

    This is the stuff the lurkers on here need to know.

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