Declaration of Dependence (page 3)

rocketman

Stephanus, how dare you point something out (as you did in Romans 14) to the ~~elders~~ spritual leader!

Pris, that's why I've been posting this stuff. I thought it would be interesting to compare Dubbism and the cultic conditions I lived under. Although the brands are different, the product is the same - legalism is legalism! In fact, you might say that the definition of a cult is a religion where a discussion on spirituality centres around who should be cleaning the toilets...

PS, patience on the Oleander Tree Rule - although your interpretation might be right - I often wondered if the house leader spent time chewing on Oleander leaves...

Rocketman: we had something akin to a doctine on submission to leadership. Basically it was that even if the leader you submitted to was totally wrong, God would reward your submission by changing the leader's mind eventually. But as we all know, unaccountable leadership doesn't become LESS burdensome...

The Two TV Rule:

Simple really. Was sitting in my bedroom watching my portable telly when the house leader came in and informed me that the same programme was on out on the telly in the loungeroom and for it to be on two TVs was a waste - therefore I had to move out of my comfortable bedroom into the grotty, cold loungroom to continue watching my show.

Greven, your interpretation of this reminded me of one of the new Draconian rules that came in when the wind of change swept through the leadership. Because bedrooms were not just bedrooms but in many cases mini "flats" - your whole living area, it was always okay to take females into your room. Everyone acted responsibly in this area - bedroom doors were always left open or there were more than two people in the room at the time. However the new oversight over the Guys' and Girls' houses decided that this was just plain wrong and put a blanket prohibition on such things - after all, if it was good enough for their teenage kids, it was good enough for us adults, many of whom had lived away from home for years. Under no circumstances were females to be in males' rooms or vice versa. It became apparent that the rule was unworkable, eg. the female oversight's daughter was in a band with two guys from the Guys' House and they couldn't rehearse in that house (a good large place for doing so) because of the bedroom rule. After about six months the oversight allowed the opposite sex in rooms as long as there were more than two - exactly what we'd argued for at first. They acted like they were doing us some great favour by returning to us what we already had, but they had long ago lost our respect and trust.

Stephanus

"The Big Workboots Rule"

As an apprentice fitter and turner at the steelworks, I would sometimes work afternoon shift, arriving home at about midnight. I would spend that shift doing all kinds of manly things such as belting the crap out of big pieces of metal and machinery with huge hammers, etc. I would then come home in my second pair of (clean) big workboots. I would walk through the house to my room and go to bed. Apparently those few seconds I spent walking through the door, around the corner then up the hall to my room, in my big workboots, was enough to awaken the house leader. His beauty sleep was very important to him and I got a lecture about coming home in my big workboots. I always thought he was a bit of a whinger about nothing - had it me that had been awoken by a noise that subsequently stopped, I'd simply go back to sleep without making an issue of it. He was one of those leaders who believed he wasn't doing his job unless he was reducing everything into rules. Very Elder-like.

Stephanus

Sounds like the leadergeezer needed to get a blow job

I sometimes wondered if he was secretly gay, but I never saw any evidence of that. I think he just liked being the house Patriarch. He wanted to be the father figure - he even demanded that those who would be in for dinner be there for the whole deal (at 6:00pm sharp) - so we could "fellowship" at the table.

greven

All those rules! You would have more freedom living with your parents!

The legalism I hated as a dub, I encountered elsewhere too. I doesn't even need religion, the only equation needed is: a small group (or a larger split in many small ones), a common goal, a rules entity, and physical and/or mental isolation. Soon enough a hierarchy will rise with competition for power and position. A pecking order so to speak. I even encountered this on a swimming club I had joined...

If your whole life revolves a club you try to rise within that small group like you normally would in society. This results in overvaluating a position on the club. 'Normal' people don't give a shit about you position in this club but to you it is the world. Think of the power elders have over their flock: it can be substantial, but their authority means nothing to people outside the 'club'...

Greven (still curious about those other rules)

Stephanus

I doesn't even need religion, the only equation needed is: a small group (or a larger split in many small ones), a common goal, a rules entity, and physical and/or mental isolation. Soon enough a hyarchy will rise with competition for power and position. A pecking order so to speak.

Great observations - that's basically how this situation grew. Although no real hierarchy grew within the house - it was the house leader and his minions.

I even encountered this on a swimming club I had joined...

You've got to be kidding! Did they have a set of silly rules that kept getting sillier? If so, please start a thread about them! If lurkers see that these orgs and their rules are similar, regardless of whether or not the group claims to be "the Truth", it may help bring them a step closer to leaving the Tower sooner.

Makena1

All those "rules" wouldn't seem so bad if

there was someone like Charlize Teron (of Cider House Rules) to commiserate with.

Mak

greven

Steph,

I might start a thread about this club, it's interesting enough...

It began really simple: You had to sign up to get a swimming education, usually one starts at the age of 4. After basic skills you can do survival trainings and rescue courses. After that you can learn how to teach others. I went through it all because it was enjoyable, I like to swim.

The routine was (usually on Friday) 17:30-20:00 swimming or teaching in a pool, 20:30-21:30 Theory discussion at the club, 'bookstudy' you had to study some written material en this was discussed at the club. 21:30-22:00 drinking some beer and time to socialize.

It all started out as relaxed and enjoyable. the problems started when certain people began to create a public campaign. To increase public awareness and attact sponsors. People began striving to do more for the association, the club. Activities outside the usual fridaynight were organised. For example: marching in file with shirts with the grouplogo during local festivities. The club assigned positions in organising these activities to volunteers. Soon enough the people with such positions began looking down upon people that didnot volunteer for any extra activities and did nothing more than pay contributions and socialise (this was how it all started!). You had to do more!

We can easely see parallels with JW's. It started as a nice and cozy group that studied the bible and exchanged opinions and views, but soon enough a hierarchy emerged and you had to participate in a public campaign, doing more! And JW's started looking down upon the bible students that simply continued in the basic setup from the start. Hmm, I will rewrite this and post this as a topic soon. It is interesting!

Greven

Declaration of Dependence

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