Help with an entrenched family memeber

by budbayview 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • budbayview
    budbayview

    Wanted to send this to my "active" sister in hopes of awakening her, comments welcome.  She thinks I am a heathen apostate...

    LOSING MY RELIGION

     

    Preface

    The writer who takes the time to lay down his thoughts on paper; however, fatuous has more courage than any critic of the same.  It is far easier to pretend your principled to conceal the overwhelming fear that all is not as it may be.  I forgive you for the same. 

    Origins of Compassion

    At times, I am reminded of humanities distressed state and uncertain future.  Some event or moral situation will send me introspectively towards a need to validate humanities purpose and a need to rectify what is broken.  I get grounded quickly, and I am reminded how powerless we really are.  I’m not arguing the validity, grandeur, importance, and outcome of man’s technological advancements; however, very demonstrated is the corruptible heart of man, and mankind has and will prevent the good that may come from any technology advancements, and man will suppress it to a select elite few.

    Therefore, my religious Christian background is stimulated, and logically I want conclude that according to the Bibles plot, and most Christians would agree that simply stated we have purpose, and we have a future supported by our Creator or God.

    The more I read and increase my knowledge of the gospel, the more I question.   I see man’s corruptible nature interceding and twisting the narrative with motivation to control humanity, his fingerprints are everywhere on these writings.  The bible if full of circumstantial evidence, and hearsay or second person accounts; however, relatively little physical, or demonstrative evidence to support many of the claims made in the Bible.  This is not a new argument, however a statement of the facts.  Unfortunately, in our time, it requires faith, or a belief in the unknown to secure ones rational for their assertions on god and belief in the Bible as the literal words of god.  Unfortunately, without any one of us actually seeing God, or his designate to corroborate the statement that all scriptures are the inspired word of God, this statement alone does not substantiate the allegation.

    Why does any of this matter?  Because I want the narrative to be true, I want to know that humanity has hope, above man’s own fallible means.  I want to know that the intelligent being that created this universe, our earth, and all the living creatures on it, would not let violence, death, suffering, pain, and all the combined worlds’ atrocities to continue without interceding.  I have little interest in the specific dogma of the world’s religions, but appeal to the logical intellect of causation at the highest level to grasp a purpose and future for mankind.   

    From the Bible we are to believe that this intelligent being, God, our Father, whom created us in their image, that instilled our parental, and maternal nurturing, and loving persona, that has ensured the survival of our offspring for millennia, would act any less for his human family.  As parents, if we had two children and we had to choose which one would die to save the life of the other, who would you choose?  Do you think God, our Father wants to lose any of his children?   A Father who knows all the stars by name, a God that provides for the lessor animals?   Do you really believe in your heart that he wants to lose any of his children, and that he would not go to great lengths to redeem them?  Or do you foolishly believe that the Hebrew god, who murdered innocent children is the same creator?  He put to death all the Egyptian first born sons, turned on Moses his faithful instrument, and would have put him to death for refusing to circumcise his son, or the Hebrew god who ordered Saul and the Israelites to slaughter the Amalekites.   “…in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you.”  Were these not his children to?  But we are going to just dismiss this, and make an excuse that he is god and can do anything he chooses with his creation, or perhaps we reason that these children would grow up as their parents, as enemies of the Lord and therefor god in all his wisdom was justified in taking their lives?  I am sorry, I cannot concede to either as a rational explanation for a being that is so intelligent to have created the cosmos and all that is in it.  This Hebrew god sounds more like a lesser god, a power hungry vengeful, and jealous god, and less of divine origin, or one capable of infallible righteousness and love.  The latter explanation is fallacious as well.  How can we argue that we have free will and that our lives are not pre-destined if we are condemned before we have a chance to live out our lives?  If we are incapable of change, then why are we going through this agony to begin with?

     

    http://www.wikiart.org/en/gustave-dore/the-deluge


    We are reminded of this when we look at the work of Gustave Deor, The Deluge.  Seeing the tiger clinging to this vestige of life on the last peaks of land holding its cub on high. The children hoisted by their parents to save their lives, whose agonizing last thoughts of despair matched the black of the starless night sky.   The artist image captures an emotion of hopelessness and despair, and awakens our compassion for these lost souls.  The souls that we would just relegate to collateral damage.  If these actions seem incongruent with our reasoning as gods children, created in their image, than I argue that there must be another explanation.    

    One such explanation is realized when we examine the motive, means, and opportunity for seeding disinformation into Bible.  If one non-truth or lie is woven into the truthful narrative, than the whole series becomes questionable and the seed of doubt is sowed.  The master deceiver or god’s adversarial opponent would have great motive to perpetrate this disinformation campaign.  

    Regarding the religious orders that have volunteered to assume the responsibility of the messiah or mediator’s messages, I suggest they are complicit in the proliferation of ignorance, and reproach of self-reasoning in favor of dogmatic ritual and rules for the sake of the organization.  To ignore or prioritize the gospels writings in an effort to forward a particular sect’s beliefs and agenda, are in my opinion, blasphemy of the highest degree.  For example, we are all familiar with an ancient allegory in the New Testament.  That there was a god who was sent in man’s form to our earth, commissioned by his father to atone for humanities fallen state and teach the hope of a new government, redemption and a chance for the dead to have this same.  I think many know of this antidote and what happened.  This man taught, and demonstrated how to manipulate the physical world and that the limitations of death could be overcome.  He was doubted as Gods son, and blasphemer.  It is a great love story complete with the antagonist, Satan, government officials, religious leaders, and regular people like you and I.  Unfortunately, like all good protagonists, he must die an agonizing death at the end, but only to be risen as a God and king for his loyalty.  He has promised to come again to finish what he started, and we anxiously wait for his return. 

    From the ancient manuscripts we all profess to know him, what he said, and what he did, and we have a belief that he will return as he promised.  And we believe this, without much historical evidence that he ever existed other than the collection of manuscripts and letters, and later period historian’s writings that have survived documenting this myth.  They have been translated, edited, and canonized by none other than a Roman official, Emperor Constantine, a Roman and thus tied to very authorities that carried out our protagonist’s death sentence.  These words have been translated into English and various other languages, added interpretation and opinion into what we read and call the New Testament.

    I amazes me that most men cannot even read or write the original languages that these were written in, and even if we could, only copies of copies exist to this day.  However, we are willing to give our life for this belief, we are willing to kill for him, to convert the non-believers, we are willing to give up our families, we are willing to burn down the very things that make up our life for this belief.   And we do this in his name, we are convicted, we are driven, and what we are that we cannot see, is selfish.  We are willing to do anything in his name to save our own soul, and have a chance at what he promised.  And a few hundred years after he departed this earth and broke the foundations of the hypocritical religious bodies of the day, we are right back doing the same things that he warned us not to do.  But we justify it, we justify it because we ALL believe we have the truth.  The sad truth is that the fabric of this belief is as delicate a snowflake.  There it is, floating down, you put out your hand to examine it, and it melts before your eyes.  Do you think you could even remember what it looked like, seconds after it melted, or accurately draw it out on paper?   But yet, we are willing to die for this, not associate with our own family, and condemn and judge others on this melting fabric of truth.

    However, even I as the skeptic, I would ascertain that we do not know him like we profess, or what he said, and did and wants.  Yet the one commandment that he espoused when asked by his followers, “what is the greatest commandment, my lord” we ALL fail horribly at.  You see, if we truly believe what he said, and lived our life accordingly, we would realize that we cannot earn this gift, and that creating human sects, and various divisive religions, and by paying more attention to the “law” of the rules of the religion, by breaking up families by disassociation, by thinking that saving a stranger at a door or on a street corner is more important than saving the lives of your family, by not forgiving those that hurt us, by believing that God only cares about a certain sect.  I say you missed the point of his message.  Jesus said “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” This is the first and greatest commandment.  And the second is like it: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”  All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” 

    I single out not any particular religion or sect, they all will fail because man is at the helm.  And the minute they profess they are inspired by God, and place themselves as a mediator between you and God, you better look hard at what they profess, because there can be only one mediator, and last I checked he has not returned.   

    Some may argue that by proselyting they are meeting this commandment in full.  I may agree to some extent, but when the organization of these events and an order is put in place to amass like believers, the effort is perverted to sustain the organization and its particular mantra, and not the individuals of the truth.  This is simply the psychology of organizational structures, it exists in the secular world as evidence of large corporate entity’s managing a culture, ethos and core values to direct a multitude of employees for the same cause.  It is the same in religious organizations.      

    Yes, I have lost my religion, but not my spirituality or belief that the creator will rescue us, from us.  This I know, not because of ancient manuscripts, but because I can see his love in all his creation and in his greatest creation, us.  Whom was created in the image of the gods, meaning our persona is as theirs.  It is that simple.  So, the devil is in the details I am told, then why bother with them at all?


  • MissFit
    MissFit

    Hi.  I think it is way to long I would suggest picking one issue to bring up.  Perferably one she might be open to.

    Other wise she will probably stop reading or shut down.

    just my 2cents.

    Miss.Fit

  • Daniel1555
    Daniel1555

    Amen.

    I agree fully with what you wrote. 

    If your sister reads it, she might get to know your opinion on the matter of religion. Probably she would view you even more as a dangerous apostate person.

    It might be better not to use the word "sect."

    Maybe it will move the heart of your sister if she sees that you are a very loving brother to her.

    I wish you good luck with everything.



  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Far too long, far too intellectually worded, and far too removed from what she believes - Scriptures.

    I would suggest that you don't "compare apples with oranges", thereby creating a gulf between you. Instead, tune in to her "frequency" and discuss Biblical topics, using information you've gleaned from sites like this.

    For example, the Watchtower Study article for January 26th - February 1st, in the November 15th WT 2014, contains TWO glaring falsehoods in successive paragraphs which 7 - 8 million Witnesses will just swallow as "spiritual food" without a second thought!

    That's how gullible we are, and the G.B. & their cohorts know it!

    w14 11/15 p. 26 pars. 11-12 "Now You Are God’s People" 11 "He gathered "the sons of the Kingdom" into an organized people, in fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy: "Will a land be brought to birth in one day? Or will a nation be born all at once? Yet, as soon as Zion went into labor, she gave birth to her sons." (Isa. 66:8) Zion, Jehovah’s organization of spirit beings, brought forth her spirit-anointed sons and organized them into a nation."
    Get your sister to open her Bible at Galatians 6:16 and tell you what "land" or "nation" was created in one day, in fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy. Then reason with her that if this "nation" was not created until 1919, then none of the so-called anointed Christians from the 1st century can be part of that "nation", just as Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob couldn't be!
    Was the new "nation" created in one day - at Pentecost 33 C.E. or over many months and years, from 1919 onwards?

    Par. 12 "Just like the early Christians, the anointed "sons of the Kingdom" were to be witnesses of Jehovah." (Read Isaiah 43:1, 10,11.)

    Witnesses of whom????? 

    Matt. 10:18; Mark 13:9; Acts 1:8; John 1:15; John 5:37; John 8:18; John 15:26,27; Acts 10:39; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:31; Acts 22:15; Acts 22:20; Acts 23:11; Acts 26:16; 1 Cor. 1:6; 1Tim. 2:6,7; 2 Tim. 1:8; 1 John 5:9; Rev. 1:9; Rev. 12:17; Rev. 17:6; Rev. 19:10; Rev. 20:4.

    Ask your sister if she can provide you with one single scripture which tells Christians to witness for Jehovah!

    You have to get her to reason from her own Bible. Best wishes!




  • R. Jerome Harris
    R. Jerome Harris
    We all have a defect and flaw in our thinking and this defect is what prevents persons from understanding and respecting one another.
    Defect one: Each thinks his/her religion is the right one and all others are cults. (The word cult comes from the root word "culture" but it has really been redefined as "a religion or belief system that does not agree with our own." My point is that it is arrogant to define the religions of others as a "cult" because we personally don't like that religion. Christ never went around doing such a thing. People today create their own divisions while at the same time claiming to follow Christ.
    Defect Two: Christ never told anyone to be known as a "Christian." He never called himself a Christian, he never addressed his disciples as Christians, and his disciples never addressed each other by that title either. The few times "Christian" and "Christians" are used in the Bible is by persons who were not followers of Christ. Christ simply told us to be known as his disciples. Not by all of these fancy titles men have created for themselves.
    Defect Three: Placing the Bible above Christ. All to often I see persons referring to the Bible as if it is The Word of God. It gets the credit and props that should otherwise be going to the ONLY one who is The Word of God: Christ Jesus. People will say, "The Bible says ..." "The Bible teaches ..." If Jesus himself says it, they will say "The Bible says at John 14:6 (for example) ..." The Most High God has COMMANDED that we listen only to the one He sent. This is stated at Luke 9:35. That means that we do not listen to the voices of humans and human entities or books. We listen to the living Son of God "who is" The Word of God. No book by any name should be given that lofty and holy title. But men have elevated a book to that level and even make it The Word of God also. God did not command the listen of to a book, but to a person: His Son.
    Defect Four: No Gospel. No one can lift from what is written in the book named by men - The Bible - what the Gospel message is. Jesus said that Matthew 24:14 that a Good News of the Kingdom message will be preached to all of the inhabited earth - as a witness to it - then the end will come. The false assumption made by men is that they think God has commissioned them to preach it. Jesus never said that any human would preach a Good News of the Kingdom message. Never! Additionally, no can show what exactly that message is. I know that JWs think it is placing WT literature and conducting Bible studies and assisting others to join "The Organization" is preaching the Good News of the Kingdom. It is not. Revelation 14:6 is very clear as to who will declare the Good News message. It will be one solitary angel.That Kingdom message will be given to this angel to declare. Christ is the "Faithful Witness" and he is that angel who will declare that Good News message announcing the coming down of God's Kingdom. No imperfect human can declare such a perfect message. It has not and it will not be given to men to humans to preach. None of us has earned that right. Only Christ has. So what the Watch Tower is preaching - or any other so-called Christian organization - is not a Gospel message. They are all preaching a false message they THEY THEMSELVES have defined as "The Gospel." I challenge anyone to show we WHAT that Good News message is. Ask 10 people on the street and they do not know what it is. Ask 10 JWs and you will get a different answer. No one knows because that message has not been given yet and will not be given until AFTER Christs future 1000 year kingdom over the earth has come and gone. It will be preached during the time of Satan's ascension out of the abyss, will have set up his Beatly throne on the earth, when all of mankind will have been resurrected by Christ and gone through that 1000 years. Satan will mislead that future world of ALL of resurrected mankind. (Rev 20:7-8)
    Defect Five: Not Bible Studies. Christ did not command us to make "Bible Studies." He ask that we make disciples to him. The word disciple means "student." This implies a teacher. Thus, we become students (disciples) of Christ NOT students or disciples of the Bible. Christ is our Teacher, not the Bible. Like I said earlier, a book has subtly usurped and replaced Christ. (Matthew 28:19-20)

    Defect Six: Study of publications rather than study of Christ. I know as a former JW that what are called "Bible Studies" by JWs are really "Studies of Watchtower Publications." Those publications are designed to "train" and "direct" the mind in the way of the thinking and philosophy of the Watch Tower organization. One will often note that when matters of discussion on a particular topic comes up, many persons will either refer to "The Bible" or to what is stated in one of the Watch Tower publications RATHER than having the mindset of what "Christ says" or taught about it. My point is that EVERYONE and EVERYTHING else is consulted and referred to except the actual sayings and teachings of Christ. After The Most God commands that one listens to His Son, why should any care what anyone or anything says? Satan himself is quoted in "The Bible" as well as many other persons. But none will say that Satan's words are "The Word of God!" Yet, he is quoted in book that many call The Word of God.
    The only way you can help your Sister is by you yourself knowing the "mind of Christ" and his teachings. (Notice that I did not say the mind of the Bible or some religious organization).
    It is not your mission to change your Sister. Your goal should be to know "The Truth" (Christs teachings) and then plant them (teach them to others) and God will be the one to effect change in a person.
    "So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow."

    If anyone credits a book called the Bible, or a religious organization or any human agency with changing them, then they do not have the truth. Only God can impact such a change in persons. Those things ARE NOT God.
    If you want to know the truth, let me tell you how to know it: Enter into a private place away from the eyes and ears of others. Ask the Father in heaven (through the channel of his Son) for His wisdom, His knowledge and His understanding. Let him know that you want to know the truth FROM HIM and not through the religious organizations of this world. You MUST NOT lean upon your own wisdom, knowledge and understanding or of that of others or of religious organizations. (This is very hard to do). Be sincere and persistent in your request from The Most High God. (God knows your heart and you will not be fool Him). Expect to be answered not on your timetable, but on the Eternal God's timetable.
    Reject the notion that God will answer you through the Bible, persons or religious organizations. That will not be possible and here is why: Only Christ is "The Way, The Truth and The Life." If anyone believes that God answers them through these things, then Christ is not the Way to them, those things are.
    The only possible way God communicates with us is through the one He appointed as "His Word" Christ Jesus. Thus, the Bible cannot be The Word of God and no human agency (religious organization) can be used to receive anything from God and then it is given to people as religious organization is NOT Gods Word either. It flows from God through His Son directly to us via Holy Spirit.
    That Christ has ascended, he can no longer be seen. Thus, we must exercise faith in him. (Heb 11:1) It takes no faith in the thing that can be seen. One can see a book and a religious organization can they? Yet, these are the THINGS that people put their trust and faith in.
    Only God can help you and your Sister and all of us. But we have to want to know the truth no matter how painful it will be. And I guarantee you, the truth is not easy to hear, accept and digest in THIS world. But it will be the truth.
    No religious organization by ANY NAME or CLAIM is the truth or has the truth. Christ has NEVER been within any of them. Rather, he has been "without of them." (Hebrews 13:11-14)
    The truth is only with Christ. He is not an organization, he is a living person. That he is alive yet many act as if he is dead! That he is alive speak to your Master and LISTEN TO HIM. (Luke 9:35)
    You will be hated by religious organizations - especially the foretold impostor, Christianity -  for listening to Christ. (Matthew 24:4-5)
    Yet, prayer to the Father in heaven is vital as he is the source of wisdom, understanding and knowledge and truth and it will be given to any seeking them.
    But it will be given only through His Son. So guess who you MUST become a disciple of?
    One must reject the teachings of ALL of the religious organizations of the world. None are of God and Christ.
    When you do that, you will then understand what it feels like to be in a wilderness like the Master was. But you will have and know the truth.
  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Can God be separated from His word?  God speaks through His word, saves through His word, quickens through His word, sanctifies through His word.  The Holy Ghost can use nothing less than the word of God to transform a life. 

    What do you know of eternal significance apart from His word?

  • blondie
    blondie

    It is too long; she'll never get to the end.  Pick the best point and develop that.

    Be prepared for a jw to use Rev 1:5 to prove that Jesus was a witness of Jehovah.

     "The congregation of anointed Christians proved to be that nation. The speaker quoted the apostle Peter, who said that the “holy nation” of anointed Christians would “declare abroad” the excellencies of Jehovah. (1 Peter 2:6-9) So Jesus was not saying that Christians would be witnesses only of him and no longer be witnesses of Jehovah. After all, Jesus is called “the Faithful Witness.” (Revelation 1:5; 3:14) He is the foremost Witness of Jehovah and the model we follow.—1 Peter 2:21."

     w10 2/1 pp. 29-31

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    It's nice that you have got your thoughts on paper, as a fellow xJW I can understand your position and can empathise with how you feel.

    But if this is to reach your active JW fleshly sister it's not really going to wake her up to WT indoctrination. You are tearing apart the Bible in effect. You really need to understand what she doubts from WT or what she struggles with and then go from there.

    There are many policies of WT that have woken JWs due to having personal experience. For example I was DF'd for exposing domestic violence. My kids witnessed this and experienced the mishandling of domestic violence within WT. They were faced with a DF'd mother and a violent father who was in good standing.

    The DFing policy was the way in to teach them TTATT, and wake them up. They are both mentally awake and safe from WT clutches.

    Kate xx

  • leaving_quietly
    leaving_quietly

    Marking for later reading LQMARKED

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    It's beautiful. But if she is a devoted supporter of WT, this is going to be way above her paygrade. What you've written is heady stuff, and while it may perfectly express your passion on belief, if your intent is to open the door to discussion with your sister, you need to figure out what HER passion is on belief.

    To do that, you need simplicity. Her spiritual maturity level is similar to a toddler who hasn't yet learned to see grey areas or spot lies. You cannot teach a toddler with a treatise, as lovely as it is. 

    And yet, your simplicity is threaded through the letter, and that is love. So imagine you are having the conversation with a very intelligent child - who if given enough simple ideas, can develop a complex understanding. 

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