Is Satan on the Offensive or the Defensive?

by jgnat 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • jgnat

    Yin and Yang? Opposite and necessarily equal amounts of both? If so, when do the Jews get compensation for millions dead? Paduan, that is deeep. My head hurts.

  • Farkel

    Is the Good Tooth Fairy on the offensive or the defensive?

    Same thing. Same imaginery bad guy/good guy stuff. I'm amazed how dubs and other normally rational people debate about fantasies that only exist in their own minds.


  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    I often see cases of "offensiveness" where people aren't satisfied until they've trampled on someone who isn't as worthy as themselves or something.

    Same thing different cultures - just a different way of saying it.

  • Aztec

    I have to agree with rem on this one. The Devil is a myth in many cultures. How else to explain natural phenomena? As far as Hitler goes, can you say psychopath? ~Aztec

  • Introspection

    Offensive and defensive requires a position of identification, just as good and evil does. Most of the time it seems that those who fancy themselves as either good or bad lack awareness of the overall picture, since these opposites have no meaning without each other. The result seems to be that whatever your position, the effort to resist the opposite position results in violent behavior, whether it's physical or strictly mental, which can happen on the level of an individual. The reason for the violent behavior (violent in that it is a reaction to the opposition) is the same for both sides, a limited perspective based on self interest, which is to say the interest of that limited perspective.

  • rem
    Hitler was evil. How can genocide be glossed over as plain self-interest? That kind of hatred is at war with the human race and it's continuance. Biologically speaking, such acts are contrary to the greater good of maintaining the species.

    Xenophobia and psychotic behavior do not require a devil being to be explained (Occham's Razor). They are completely natural phenomena. There is no biological or evolutionary reason why people would work for the greater good of the entire species. Organisms do, at times, work for the greater good of their close relatives, though.

    I also have a special hatred for child abusers. Even biologically speaking, such behavior is abberrant, because it damages the coming generation Children must take prescedence over our own self-interest.

    Does it damage the coming generation to the point of denying them reproductive powers? Not usually. There would be no natural mechanism to eliminate such behavior unless if significantly affected the reproduction of the coming generation. I'm not saying such behavior is good - I'm just saying that there is no need to posit an imaginary evil spirit creature to explain why it exists. In fact, positing the existence of an imaginary omni-benevolent spirit creature would make such behavior inexplicable. rem

  • Realist

    good and evil does indeed not exist. evil is what differs from the ethical believes of the society you live in.

  • oldcrowwoman

    He is neither!! A figment of imagination > To instill fear of god in people to keep them in control.


  • greven

    As christians claim, only God wrote a book while Satan has not.

    Even if both God and Satan existed, would it be fair to hear only one side of the story? Never wondered about that?


  • jgnat

    I think a few words of explanation are in order.

    I bore easily, so I had to have a good reason to keep posting. Early on, I set my own personal guidelines.

    • Use this as a place where I can freely speak my mind about JW stuff without fear of censure (JW‘s), or blank stares (everybody else).
    • I will continue to need this board as long as my honey is part of the WTS.
    • I need to give back, too, in my own small way. One way I can help is by preparing my own personal review of the WT rags (thanks for the inspiration, Blondie). I believe there are fresh xJW’s or teetering JW’s that visit this site. By providing an alternative (more mainstream) interpretation of the studies, I hope to give teetering JW’s something to think about.
    • By providing these studies, I hope to show that independent bible studies are possible by ordinary folks.
    • I defend Christendom’s Churches here because they get a bum rap by the society. By trashing all other religions, the society effectively closes off spiritual support for former members.
    • When a concept or thought impassions me, I write a story. Some of my stories a pretty good. I post them here because you are a great, supportive audience.

    I understand that when some leave the society they leave organized religion, and often any faith in God. After all, the WTS was god to them. I can appreciate that there is a deep sense of betrayal for many. If that is how xJW’s have chosen to move on, I am in no position to tell them any different. This is not a -pro- or anti - God site, so I chose not to embroil myself in those arguments. Such debates are possible, I guess. I understand, though, to argue with an Athiest I have to chose something other than the Bible as my basis for argument. I worry, too, if I squander my energy bickering with xJW’s, it does not forward my goal to reach the teetering JW’s. Some teetering JW’s will go athiest, some will go independent Christian. I want to provide food for thought for JW’s who do not want to abandon all aspects of their faith.

    I for these reasons, usually avoid unanswerable questions like,

    • How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
    • Does Jehovah wear a mustache?
    • Are there rainbows in Heaven?
    • Does the Devil pick his nose?

    I posted this question to provide an alternative viewpoint on the Devil for teetering JW’s and Christian xJW’s. Realist, oldcrowwoman, Farkel, Aztec and Greven, perhaps I should have been more specific in my Bible Research and Study Article question. I was presenting a different viewpoint of the Devil and Evil as interpreted by the society. I addressed for people who use the Bible as their moral guide. If you do not, fine. In my experience, obsession with darkness is no good for people.

    Rem, I have read some articles lately that suggest that people will chose activities towards species survival over personal interest. Time magazine had a great article on this a few years back. Alas, I no longer have that article at my fingertips. Here is a short article on the subject I managed to scrounge up on short notice. If survival is based only on reproductive superiority, the WTS is doomed. Children interfere with the all-important field service reports. Women do not receive additional support and care during the parenting years. And, when children naturally exert their independence, they risk disfellowshipping. The Catholic church tried the reproductive approach in Quebec a few years back. The strategy backfired. English Canada ended up dominating the economy, because they had more energy to develop individual prosperity. In my own rambling way (not thought quite through) I am suggesting that abusive parents are behaving contrary to reproductive self-interest. Perhaps another day on another thread.

    Introspection, are you saying that people will violently maintain their own worldview (whether negative or positive) when threatened?

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