To Meet or Not to Meet

by Frenchy 16 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Frenchy

  This has been brought up from time to time in other posts relative to other arguments but I thought it deserved its own thread.
  The first century Christians formed congregations. There is no debate about this. That these congregations were not entities unto themsleves is attested to by the travels and subsequent letters of the Apostle Paul. Jesus addressed seven of the congregations in his Revelation to John thereby giving at least tacit if not explicit approval of the arrangement.
  So what do we do today, those of us who truly want to worship God in an acceptable way? Do we meet as did those early Christians or do we strike out on our own and find our own personal, individual relationship with God? Is the answer personal salvation apart and separate from all others or is it to be found in an assembly of believers?
  If it's within a body of believers, where is this body now?

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  Dubby

  In my area, there are many people who meet to study the bible that aren't affiliated with a denomination. In Jesus day there was no evidence of a rigid organization such as the WTS. The congregations did have their people of different abilities, though. There were older ones, teachers, and so on.

  Is it possible to gather today, even on the internet for Bible discussion and have Jesus with us? I think so. I think we can study the bible together without forming hard and fast rules to govern the discussion or our beliefs.(unless our beliefs are obviously wayyy out there!) All we can do is read what the Bible says, maybe having to look at different versions or translations to get the understanding of the context. We don't need an organization such as the WT Society to govern us. Is an organization ever referred to in Jesus day? There were some isolated incidents such as circumcision, but older ones were consulted, not the WTBTS! If we keep an open mind, maybe we'll understand a lot more than we did as JW's! It's just a thought.

  The Bible says not where but to whom do we go. If we study the gospel accounts in a friendly atmosphere, maybe Jesus will be with us. We could do this on a new thread or under a certain topic on this board or others.(if it's OK with Simon)

  "Enjoy God's creation, ride a dirt bike!"
• 

  waiting

  Hey,

  When speaking with an elder recently about my lack of meeting attendance, he brought up the point, none too kindly, that I "better not believe that the scripture which says were two or more are gathered.....applied to husband and wife. Because it didn't mean that - it meant the Kingdom Hall meetings."

  I don't have any answers, obviously. But I think meeting with others to discuss, and even pray to Jehovah, is not wrong and would be an encouragement. I also think reading and praying by ourselves, or family arrangement is correct, also.

  What if we're wrong? We will die. What if the Society is wrong? We will die. What if the Society is right? God will kill us. What if we're right? Perhaps we will continue to learn and serve God - whatever way fits our lives.

  Surely, our consciences, through study and prayer, will help us. Would seem so, IMO. I don't think freedom has to be given up to worship God. Shouldn't Faith, Hope, and Love and something to do with all this?

  waiting

  PS For you two, who always have a hanger-on after your names (and I haven't figured out why) I've decided, after no deep thought, that this will be mine:

  Like a midget at a urinal, I have to keep on my toes.
• 

  Frenchy

  So what are you two saying? Should we endeavor to meet with those of like mind? I'm not talking about just these virtual meetings on the web.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  Dubby

  Frenchy,

  If you feel the need to gather together, the scripture does say so, so why not? I remember you saying that you feel the need to reach out to others. I think it's a good thing. Maybe find other JW's in your area who would rather meet freely away from the Hall. Or, advertise to meet for bible study(and this time w/out WT books!)

  Personally, at this time I want to stay as far away from any meetings as possible. I'm using this "time out" to gather my thoughts, do a little more research, and then maybe find a laid back group of people who don't want to change the world or "wait on Jehovah", just to read scripture and discuss. My older brother, who was never a JW, is meeting on Friday nights with a group that meet at a local grange hall. So far, he has told me that he enjoys the meetings, is learning a thing or two about the bible. He hasn't told me anything so far that would raise a flag in my mind, anyway.
• 

  waiting

  Hey,

  I'm not looking to meet with others, at this time. Like Dubby said, I want to stay far away from the KH, take time to think and read. I do immensely enjoy conversing with y'all here and at H20, and through ICQ, even an electronic Monday morning smooch. I do not think this takes the place of face to face conversation. You might be making faces at me or scratching your butts, for all I know (or vice versa!)

  I do miss the brothers & sisters - I do not miss the elders, the inuendos, the comments suffered through so that the elders would not think that I thought too much of my independence. And I particularily do not miss being unable to give real comments on what I really thought - or to ask real questions.

  I miss the friends - but like Dubby's brother has tentatively found, Bible discussion can be found, or made, by us if we choose. Perhaps not Theocratic discussion - but I think that's the point.

  I do believe it will take effort on our part to reach out to others - and we have had the opposite point drilled into our heads don't reach out to others for biblical conversation. I think that's going to take time for me to weed out of my thinking process.

  Thought I'd try Weight Watchers first, see how it goes mingling with "worldly persons."

  Edited by - waiting on 1 July 2000 20:3:21
• 

  Friend

  Frenchy

  I know you do not wish to converse with me, nevertheless I wanted to respond to your genuine questions here with a few thoughts. Hopefully you will forgive the intrusion.

  So what do we do today, those of us who truly want to worship God in an acceptable way? Do we meet as did those early Christians or do we strike out on our own and find our own personal, individual relationship with God? Is the answer personal salvation apart and separate from all others or is it to be found in an assembly of believers?

  If it's within a body of believers, where is this body now?

  I believe Christians of the first century met and were encouraged to meet together for only two reasons. 1) They needed the mutual encouragement and 2) to see to the dissemination of the good news. I think those remain the only reasons for Christians gathering together today also.

  Meeting together for mutual encouragement included continuing education into God’s Will, sharing strength of conviction, stimulation related to faith, and otherwise building one another up for whatever the need is.

  Meeting together for dissemination of the good news served the object of Jesus’ command to witness in all the inhabited earth. Being aware of what fellow Christians are doing in relation to that work we can build upon it by acting in some semblance of a concerted effort. Remember that Jesus taught his followers to act as his agents in that work and as his agents we exist under a single congregation, his. So, naturally we would have that as a reason for meeting together.

  As for our relationship with Jehovah through his son, that has always been a personal thing. While meeting with others of similar conviction can help that relationship it is nevertheless something nurtured only between the individual and God through his son, Jesus. Salvation is likewise an issue between each individual and God. Some persons have no choice but to go it alone. Certainly in that case they will not be automatically lost due to their inability to meet with other of similar conviction.

  As for the body of Jesus’ followers, they are all around us. Persons doing their level best to follow Jesus are his true followers. We will see them quarreling amongst themselves over things ranging from petty to significant. We will see them making one mistake after another. We will see serious sins being committed in their number. We will see lack of love, false prophesying, et cetera. What will not see amongst Jesus’ followers, though, is them ceasing to confess Jesus as their leader and master or ceasing to place their future hope in God’s kingdom in Jesus’ hands. We will find these persons among those dissemination the good news of God’s kingdom, even if the most they can do is give out Bibles. Being among such people and trying to help them as they help us is a fine thing.

  Friend
• 

  Martini

  Hi ALL,

  Waiting said;

  "I do believe it will take effort on our part to reach out to others - and we have had the opposite point drilled into our heads don't reach out to others for biblical conversation. I think that's going to take time for me to weed out of my thinking process."

  I think you get to the root of the problem with this statement. (Root to most problems infact)
  It's going to be difficult for us brainwashed folks to view most anything religious without our ingrained WT bias.
  Frenchy didn't Russell himself question where he might find the Lord's company or congregation?When he couldn't find any to his liking look at what resulted! From a small band meeting in freedom of the sons of God to an international group of slaves publishing for their LORDS.
  I agree with Dubby and Waiting, religion is personal,only you know who,what where,when,why and how much you need to satisfy your spiritual need.For me personally I am thankful for the encouragement I was given to pay more than the usual attention to reading the bible. However I know now that anything in addition to the bible is spiritual surplus and of limited value.
  I look at it this way I will speak spiritual thoughts with spiritual people where and when it is welcome, which can happen as often if you like it to.

  Best to you,
  Martini
• 

  Pathofthorns

  Meeting together outside of what is arranged by the organization presents a catch 22.

  Any attempt to follow the Biblical advice to fellowship and discuss the Bible leads to apostacy charges and disfellowshipping.

  Not associating leads to one not following the Bible.
• 

  Frenchy

  I thank all of you for your replies (I hope more are forthcoming).
  Friend: I stopped replying to your posts because of comments you made that I construed as implications, if not downright assertions, of stupidity on my part. No one likes to be talked down to. I try very hard not to be 'preachy' or view myself as some self-appointed teacher whose calling is to 'straighten people up' at each and every opportunity and I am put off my anyone who comes across to me as such. I don't accuse people of not understanding when they don't agree with me nor do I suggest that they 'go and learn what this means' either. Quite frankly you came across to me as one doing this.
  You have made some good points. I agree with a lot of what you have said, including most of what you posted on this thread. I think that I am a reasonable man and I am not dogmatic. If you want to communicate with me in a dignified and respectful manner I would be most happy to accomodate. Just so we both understand that I did not come here to teach anymore than to be taught but rather to exchange ideas and perhaps share in some mutual encouragement.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-