WT.01/ 11/ 15 P.18,par.12. Armageddon is here ?

by Blueblades 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  rocketman

  good one bnext.
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  onacruse

  Gamaliel, it appears to me that the WTS associated Ps. 91:7 with Armageddon up until 1974 (w51 9/1; w55 5/1; w60 10/15; w63 8/1). Even the w74 3/15 issue did so, but then 9 months later a flurry of articles in w74 12/1, 12/15 seems to change it over to a generalized application.

  w74 referenced this verse 31 times; all the Watchtowers from then up through 2001 discuss it a combined 30 times...so I'm thinking that '74 was the year that they got the sudden "flash of new light" on this.

  90% of JWs today came in after '74, so now, as typical, that "new" light is treated as the "always the way it used to be old light."

  Craig
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  Gamaliel

  onacruse/Craig,

  Thanks for the work on that. I remember we considered it a change in the 70's, but I wasn't sure if a "spiritualization" had previously been attempted in the 60's. I rather doubt it because 74 was the first time the JWs were faced with "a brick wall" in terms of chronology. (If 1975 didn't work for some reason, there were no more specific dates to point to beyond that. Subliminally or actively, thinkers at HQ had to be wondering what they might do if '75 was wrong.)

  I wonder if anyone has slipped up and un-spiritualized the verse since then. As I recall, the song "Jehovah Is Our Refuge" from the 1966 songbook, used the future tense with respect to this verse, but used it ambiguously to possibly mean now. (Jehovah is our refuge, our God, in whom we trust His shadow is our shelter, abide in it we must. Though thousands at your left hand will fall....Ten thousand at your right hand, no harm will you betide, For he will save and rescue you from pestilence and trappers, too.) For some reason, I'm thinking they had quote marks around "pestilence" and "trappers" which could imply that the spiritualization of those verses had already begun. Karl Klein might have been in charge of the songbook then, but, imho, he wasn't smart enough to be that "subtle."

  Gamaliel
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  blondie

  In 1974 and 1975, a series of WT articles appeared to assure JWs that as a group God would protect them, but that Psalm 91 did not promise individual protection. Notice the timing is shortly before 1975 when the WTS expect Armageddon to break forth.

  This quote from the Do You Remember? in 1975 shows what the WTS considered the point to remember.

  5/1/75 WT 286 Do You Remember?

  
  

  In modern times, what experience of God’s servants has corresponded to the words of Psalm 91:7, "A thousand will fall at your very side and ten thousand at your right hand; to you it will not come near"?

  God’s servants have continued in their place of spiritual security, whereas the people of Christendom and Jewry have fallen in spiritual death, becoming victims to such things as materialism, nationalism, the idolizing of science, and the like.—Pp. 733, 734, 756-758.

  6/15/75 WT 377 Looking to the Future with Confidence

  
  

  Should we expect, moreover, that because Jehovah is on our side he will miraculously intervene to protect each one of us personally from death or injury during the "great tribulation"? Both Psalm 91:7-12 and Proverbs 3:25, 26 have been mistakenly cited by some as supporting this view. The psalm says: "A thousand will fall at your very side and ten thousand at your right hand; to you it will not come near." Lest we read into this text more than it states, we must ask ourselves if Moses is here talking about the coming "great tribulation" and is declaring a blanket protection for individual servants of God then. This would hardly be so when we remember that centuries later Paul showed that up to his time the devoted followers of Jehovah had undergone mockings, scourgings, prisons, tribulations and many other persecutions, even violent death. However, we can be assured that, as a group, Jehovah will protect them from being exterminated by their enemies during the "great tribulation," and He, himself, will not touch them during his executing of adverse judgments.—Heb. 11:36-38.

  p 378 Looking to the Future with Confidence

  
  

  We have evidence that God is protecting us now as a class. For instance, if such were not the case, we would have been wiped from the face of the earth long ago by Satan. Still " or, like our brothers in Malawi, from persecutions.

  The protection of us, as a group, will continue right on through the destruction of Babylon the Great and the war at Har–Magedon into the New Order.

  The 2001 WT article may be emphasizing those inside the WTS are those who fall, those within who don't stay faithful.

  From the 2001 WT article

  Because of failing to make Jehovah their refuge, many "fall" in spiritual death at our "very side."

  Those who succumb to its materialistic views suffer spiritual destruction.

  These statements could also apply to those outside the WTS. While I do not doubt that the WTS feels that those who were once faithful JWs are those who fall by the side, I don't see that this article makes a very clear application of that.

  What I can say is that up until 1974, it was strongly felt by most JWs that they could depend on "individual" protetction during the great tribulation. The articles in 1974 and 1975, emphasized and re-emphasized that it was not individual protection, only group protection. Many had been asking questions to the WTS regarding the GT looming in their minds in 1975. "What about those older ones who had diabetes? How would God keep them alive if they had not access to their medication? Would God protect individuals from being put to death during persecution and attack at that time?" Thus the WTS answered their questions by saying that God would not be performing any miracles to preserve the lives of any individual and offered them the hope of the resurrection. That they would see people die during the GT but that did not mean that God had executed them and that they could not be resurrected. Some were disappointed wanting to be able to live through the GT into the "new order." But it was a moot point. 1975 has come and gone and the GT has not come.

  Blondie
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  onacruse

  blondie:

  *** w75 6/15 p. 377 Looking to the Future with Confidence ***

  Both Psalm 91:7-12 and Proverbs 3:25, 26 have been mistakenly cited by some as supporting this view.

  Yet again you catch another one of those disgusting dish-offs the WTS is so good at: "some of you thought this, but not us."

  Gamaliel:

  Subliminally or actively, thinkers at HQ had to be wondering what they might do if '75 was wrong.

  I agree. They were already setting up the usual cover-their-ass scenario.

  Blueblades, thanks for starting this thread. The WTS has changed so many things, it's almost impossible to keep track of it all.

  Craig
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  Blueblades

  Hi Running Man,I too was at that WT.study and it went right over the heads of all in attendance.The conductor did not even elaborate on what was being said in this par.concerning it's application.No one commented on it's spiritual application in connection with those leaving the Society,specifically leaving the Anointed and the consequences for doing so.

  Hi Blondie,good follow up as always!

  Hi Craig,Thanks,this application has been on my mind for some time,so I thought I would post it for some feedback.

  Blueblades
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  Buster

  Craig,

  If it isn't too far off topic, where did you get the '700,000 living ex-JWs' from? I would have guessed higher.

  - Cliff
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  onacruse

  Cliff, I should have been more specific: ~700,000 DFd (therefore, "officially" ex-JW, in a sense )

  Craig
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  rocky220

  Trust me folks, should ARMAGGEDDON come in our lifetime, it will be hard to miss....until then "Do what ye will and harm ye none"....words to live by.:) rocky220