Hey realist,
you already know the answer to that question; why do you ask it?
Abiogenesis
by Jerry Bergman 40 Replies latest jw friends
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Realist
i do?
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Abaddon
Hey abaddon, let me get this straight: if you don't believe in intelligent design does this mean this is not an intelligent discussion?
Judging from the rest of your post, you joining the conversation stops it being intelligent, but let us examine more of the filth that comes out of your fingertips...And why have you blended morality with physicality to obfuscate the two? Is it because you wish to dispense with morality to justify your need to ejaculate all over the world?
Ah, so, without any evidence whatsoever, you accuse me of wishing "to dispense with morality to justify your need to ejaculate all over the world?" Fine, at least you've shown your own level of morals and personal integrity at the outset. Morally bankrupt smokescreens laid down by unprincipled pseudo-Christians who allege that people don't believe in god so they won't have to follow moral codes. I have a moral code, and I really think yours, from your behaviour, is far more reprehensible than mine.
Your actions are in stark contrast to the principles supposedly laid down by someone I guess you regard as your exemplar. Wonderful, a trash-talking hypocrite masquerading as a Christian. By their fruits you will tell them. At least I can have a decent conversation with some Christians on this board, and decent friendships with some Christians I know. What do you call yourself? How do you feel about dragging your faith through the myre of your falsehoods?
I'm sure if I suggested this type of discussion be reduced to simplistic terms I'd be branded a simpleton.
The only thing I have evidence for is that you are a trash talking hypocrite masquerading as a Christian - the real Christians I know would not have done what you did. You wanting to reduce the argument to simplistic terms is probably so you can understand it, but that is conjecture. Oh, and remember, if you don’t like being treated with the contempt you earned yourself back there, YOU started this.
Okay. Then what is the probability that chaotic matter can come into existence from nothing, apparently violating Einstein's famous equation? What then is the probability that ordered matter and its corollary, complex life forms, can come into existence from nothing? What in evolutionary cosmological theory accounts for the non-existence of energy from whence matter is derived?
See, you can’t even answer the questions I raise, can you? So you have to try to do the old switch and bait, and move the argument to an area you think you can defend it on. Let’s look at this one by one, shall we?
Then what is the probability that chaotic matter can come into existence from nothing, apparently violating Einstein's famous equation?
You really, really don’t know a thing about cosmology, do you? The big bang didn’t come from nothing, so there is no supposed violation of E=Mc squared. You also are using a straw man argument. Where did I say chaotic matter could come into existence from nothing? A hypocrite and a liar, is there no end to your corruption?
What then is the probability that ordered matter and its corollary, complex life forms, can come into existence from nothing?
Again, a straw man argument, more lies. I didn’t say “ordered matter and its corollary, complex life forms, can come into existence from nothing“. Perhaps you might care to explain how god came into existance from nothing, when you’ve stopped violating the principles of your own supposed belief structure (I guess you’re a Christian, it’s quite unlikely you are a Hindu after all, they're too sensible to believe their creation myths). If you’re not to busy lying that is…
What in evolutionary cosmological theory accounts for the non-existence of energy from whence matter is derived?
Eh? You what? What accounts for the non-existence of energy from whence matter is derived? Ah, I see, you quote Einstein, but you don’t even understand Einstein. Matter can become energy and energy can become matter. So, if something is matter, the non-existence of the energy from which it is derived is explained by the fact IT’S MATTER NOW. Doh! This is the case in what you call “evolutionary cosmological theory”, and in all other theories.
Blackguard, I am quite happy to have a discussion with you, but I will treat you the way you deserve to be treated. If you become civil, I will be delighted to discuss things with you in a lively but respectful fashion. However, if you continue to post in the manner you have, I don’t think I can be even bothered responding to you. For all my spats and discussions with hooberus, and my disagreements with Jerry, I at least think they are good hearted individuals. You have got a lot of work to do to prove that about yourself, haven't you? And it's YOUR fault.
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hooberus
Abaddon said:
… as for the “historical evidence we have for the origin of life”, we don’t, just like you don’t.You also have no evidence whatsoever for the genration of a massively powerful supernatural being from nothing, which strikes me as a little more tricky than replicating chemicals developing into polymers developing into replicating polymers developing into protobonts developing into simple organisms. We do have a fossil record of later forms of life showing a clear development of complexity over time, something which your source document doesn’t really allow for…
Abaddon, Most creationists believe that God has always existed as an eternal being outside of space and time so you comments that we believe in the "generation of a massively powerful supernatural being from nothing" are incorrect. Thus your comparison of the origin of life with the origin of God is a false argument as everyone agrees that life has an origin (the subject of this thread) while most creationists hold that God is eternal and has no origin.
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hooberus
Abaddon said: Blackguard, I am quite happy to have a discussion with you, but I will treat you the way you deserve to be treated. If you become civil, I will be delighted to discuss things with you in a lively but respectful fashion. However, if you continue to post in the manner you have, I don’t think I can be even bothered responding to you. For all my spats and discussions with hooberus, and my disagreements with Jerry, I at least think they are good hearted individuals.
Thanks for the nice statement about Jerry and I, Abaddon, but Blackguard has seemed to be realtively civil at least on this thread. have a good weekend
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blackguard
Hey abaddon,
I suppose you should be thanked for demonstrating what Bergman's experiences with athiests has largely been, namely, "they lack morals, honesty, compassion and often a sense of humanity".
I don't recall identifying myself as a Christian here. Creationists are found over the whole religious spectrum lest you're not aware. You've assumed too much and idenitified yourself as the intellectual fool you really are.
Intellectual charlatans like yourself deliberately design their arguments around the more complex issues to take the focus from their lack of foundational support. It's a strategy that works well when others don't understand it. You remind me of the carpenter that scratches his head trying to figure out how to get his more complex roof structure to fit in when all the time his problem lies in his foundations not being true and solid.
So what does our bone-headed carpenter do? Why, he screams and curses and blames everyone else for making a fool of him. He has no answers. I take my hat off to you---through "bait and switch" you don't have to address the fundamentals---you've done a fine job of diverting!!
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hillary_step
Blackguard,
Your attacks are personal in character and not aimed toward the debated matter at hand. If you continue with the personal insults I will edit your posts. In fact read what I quote from your post and then read the insults in the rest of your post. You do seem to be acting a little inconsistently and I am not sure that Mr. Bergman would be terribly proud to be associated with your comments :
I suppose you should be thanked for demonstrating what Bergman's experiences with athiests has largely been, namely, "they lack morals, honesty, compassion and often a sense of humanity".
HS
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blackguard
Hey hilarystep,
It's okay for your gay buddy to hang a label on this poster such as "a trash talking hypocrite masquerading as a Christian". How do you know I'm not a Moslem and am greatly offended by this comment?
You'll notice your jaydub upbringing surfacing here to censor someone that is not in your inner circle. We used to call this discrimination, and that's your prerogative to be such.
I say the same thing to you that I said to the oppressive watchtower elders that I had the misfortune to know; I'll gladly and willingly withdraw permanently from your narrow-minded association.
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ballistic
Blackguard, Hilary isn't pretending to be god in this matter, but simply has the difficult job of deciding when it is necessary to filter out posts which break the posting guide lines, and I would agree that on the surface it is your words which appear aggressive at this time.
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hillary_step
Blackguard,
I looked at your comments against a backdrop of this debate. The majority of your post was just a plain old personal attack which you do not deny, in fact Abbadons comment to which you allude to above was as a direct result of a previous personal attack from your good-self. It is these types of posts that result in flame wars. Perhaps I was a little hasty in warning you but I have been around this Board long enough to know where this was heading.
You seem to forget that you entered this thread with by insulting another poster:
Mmmm---maybe stinkypantz' reply underscores the veracity of Bergman's claim, namely, That his experience with atheists is that "they lack morals and honesty..".
Your next thread was another personal attack upon Abbadon, and you then continued in the method you started. If you cannot debate argument without insulting the person who presents the argument, you are better off reading rather than participating in these sorts of threads.
As for the notion, handy that it is, that when a person insists on the kind of board rules that are demanded by most other non XJW boards on the Internet he is acting like an 'elder'. Well this is argument is ridiculous nonsense.
I do not want to take this thread further off-topic, so this is my last post on this matter. You may of course mail me privately if you wish to discuss this further.
HS