No the WT Borg is not closing! That's Wild Dreaming!

by DwainBowman 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • pepperheart
    i dont think its closing just yet but when they have cut back as much as they can then they will have to start selling kh off
  • SafeAtHome
    apostrate true, however then we were looking forward the death of most of the world's population. Now we are hoping that our friends and family get their lives back, free from the cult.
  • OnTheWayOut

    I haven't read the wonderful responses, but wanted to comment on the opening post.

    It is true that WTS is not closing. They have all these Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls and they have plans for next year.

    Otherwise, I disagree with much in the post.

    If as the up coming letter says, they really plan on a much harder push into the field service, in what ever form that may take, the dollars will start to roll in faster!

    The "push" is just a distraction for their money problems. They don't really want to "place" literature, so they will encourage people to the web. Stories will always be about "somewhere else" other than where the members are that are hearing bout them. Even if they did push for more recruitment, I don't see more money rolling in. Dubs give their time and not their money.

    Plus the hardcore faithful sheeple, will feel compelled to do more, and donate more! and somewhere down the road, the building will go forward, maybe in a scaled back form, but it will go on!

    Dubs saw WTS take their congregation money recently in the big grab. Now they feel the pinch to donate monthly. Elders and others in congregations will do what they can locally and give their money at the Kingdom Hall and not at the Assembly Hall, just to keep the C.O. off their backs. So donations in one place will just cut down on donations in another place.

    Buildings will not go up unless they are absolutely necessary. A few here and there will go up and the story will be about the great building program "somewhere else."

    ....they have deep pockets, and are organized, were all just very loosely formed groups, that for the most part, don't even know each other : (

    Our looseness has virtually nothing to do with their failure or success. If we did organize well, they would just say it's Satan guiding us. They are failing all on their own. Their deep pockets are holding them together for now, but we are seeing that they aren't as deep as all that. As far as "organized," let us just say they don't have money geniuses running Watchtower. They sell properties AFTER the real estate bust of 2008. We've heard about their building problems with short-term volunteers not knowing what the last volunteers did.

    From your quote:

    1. Membership – Growth continues with over eight million members worldwide. With the new marketing and branding of JWorg it can be expected that this will continue expedientially in the years to come. In the next three years expect to see over one million new members.

    No way. I believe 8 million is their peak based on their little slips of paper turned in monthly. I don't believe there will be significant growth at all. Time will tell. I don't think new marketing will help that. We may have seen their tipping point leading to their slow shrinking to insignificance.

    2. Money – JWorg pays no salaries, provides no charity of any depth, so as a result is one of the most profitable religions in the business. While they own billions in properties around the world, they also have billions socked away in funds and stocks that are liquid assets that can be drawn on at any time.

    With no salaries, they still goofed up and have to let workers go. They do own the properties, true. It isn't as liquid as some may think. It takes awhile to sell it all off.

    3. Power

    Generally true for the faithful, but the organization is not getting stronger. The more they crack down, the more people see it as crap.

    Yes, they are having some growing pains, but these adjustments are smart moves, not ones of desperation.

    I would say the exact opposite. Their people are not in positions of power because they are smart. They are kiss-asses and dedicated pioneer soldiers. Much of what they do is desperation.

  • Defianttruth

    Imagine you run a business which makes 1,000,000 per year. Your operational cost run you 66%. You have 33% you use for growth. You have a nice little plan, but you want it to grow faster. You decide to mortgage some of the equity and assets to fund your growth. So, you barrow 1,000,000 dollars which cost you 100,000 per year. No problem you increase your business by 10% so you can cover the cost of your loan. Your plan works out great. Only one problem, you only appear to be wealthier. In actuality, you are worth less now than one year ago. You find yourself discontent with what your company is doing so you use the same process the next year, then the next, and so on. You are growing larger and larger. Now you are not as lean as you once were so your operational cost has increased to 80% and then the unimaginable happens. You stopped increasing revenue to cover your cost and your previous loans. This is a scenario which is repeated everyday. This is a corporation killer. When you see a once mighty corp sell out like Dell for pennies on the dollar this is what causes it. The only thing in the case of the WBTS no one will buy them out.

    This is all hypothetical, but they are acting like a corp which has cut its own throat. Just because one sells a building for a billion doesn't mean the money goes to the seller. The bank always gets it's cut first.

  • Defianttruth
    I wonder if they would consider a merger with the Mormons. lol
  • LisaRose

    I don't think they will ever close completely, but I think they are in trouble, their actions smack of desperation. If their money troubles and child abuse issues become widely known to the rank and file I think you will see more people leaving. I think you will see their numbers shrinking in the next few years.

  • Fisherman
    Assets and any income produced by such or by WT investments should not be used to pay for WT operations. In fact, it should not be touched at all except to generate more money. All WT operational expenses, salaries, purchases of materials, etc. should come from donations. May broadcast implies Wt has had to dig into its assets to pay for operations. More revenues from donations is the only solution. Mormons get a lot more money from their tithes. No matter how you cut it WT needs more voluntary donation to pay for its operations.
  • LV101

    Focusing on the "deaf/dumb/blind etc." how pathetic and sad these wolves preying on the weak! They need protection. Hopefully, another tenacious Barbara Anderson will come along to expose this.

    The old org losers will never be like the Mormans promoting education. They pride themselves on education and being professionals much like the Jews. are overflowing with professionals - doctors, dentists, lawyers, politicians, successful businessmen, etc., etc., on every street corner. Many in my area have money to burn -- donate generously to boys/girls clubs, helpful organizations. I know the Mormans are losing members but different dynamics all the way around. The cult loser-leaders were deprived of education and making sure their minions follow suit. Unfortunately, their adherents are too illiterate to know this is the biggest red flag (HUGE) -- the obstruction of formal education.

  • steve2

    The OP and posters such as apostrate assert that other posters expect the closure and/or collapse of JW organization. With possibly one or two exceptions, the bulk of posters have NOT said that at all.

    A common view here is that the organization is facing a different kind of commercial/business threat with rapid decline in print media and a surge in electronic media. This alone has huge financial implications for an organization that is massively geared to print.

    This impacts more on organizations that do not have guaranteed financial streams as in tithing.

    We have suggested that this newer environment, combined with flagging zeal within the organization and blatant over-spending on construction, threatens its viability. Cutbacks will continue to be the order of the day, as will downsizing its workforce. These indicate money is tight, Mr Bowen and company.

    No, it won't result in collapse, but it will lead to a steady ongoing decline that, like climate change, will unfold "quietly" over the decades.

    But in one form or another, JW organization ain't going away. It will be a different beast though, perhaps more on the leaner side.

  • 3rdgen

    Up until recently I thought that all this begging for money was simply greed on the part of the Borg. Now I realize they are either in financial trouble or see it coming... "soon".

    Just to add a couple of anecdotes to the discussion: I have a born in relative who is a wealthy contractor (I won't say the trade). A couple of days ago he grudgingly flew from California to Warwick on his own dime. Why? Because the the "outside contractor" hired by the WTBT$ botched the engineering on a small job that could have been done for about $50,000 by a volunteer tradesman. They paid the "worldly" engineer $400,000.00 and it doesn't work.!!! My relative has been asked to "fix the mess"!!! He agreed to "see what he can do" but with the expense of this unnecessary trip, food and lodging I know he won't be giving any other cash for awhile. Imagine that happening regularly in this immense project, we are talking BIG money.

    Another story: Some years ago a relatively young widowed sister bought property that she found out later once had an old gas station on it. Long story short she lost ALL of her investment because the money it takes to conform to governmental regulations requiring toxic cleanup is astronomical. She couldn't afford the cleanup and she was stuck with worthless property. I bring this up because as I understand it, Warwick property has/had this issue. Just getting the property cleaned up to qualify for the building permits would likely be an extraordinary unexpected expense. Sure, they may have a case against the seller/s for lack of "full disclosure" or against any outside source that represented the property but these cases take a looong time to resolve. It could take years to get that cleanup money back if at all!

    Another anecdote: At this summer's Apostafest I met up with a wealthy newly xjw who had recently made a $40,000 donation to the building fund. Well, now that he's out, there will be no more donations from him and some of his family. Since the best and brightest continue to leave so will their money. In many cases the money has left the building BEFORE Elvis. LOL

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