by Witness 007 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Rattigan350:
607 is when the Gentile times began though Jerusalem was destroyed in 587.
The ‘gentle times’ was a period of 42 months during which the ‘holy city’ was ‘trampled’. It began in 66 CE and culminated in 70 CE. But JWs don’t care what the Bible actually says, and weird hybrid views like this are kind of worse.
I don't get why people and children want to celebrate birthdays.
🤨 Children are people. Anyway…
Let me tell you a story about a fox and some grapes.
I don't get why people and children want to celebrate birthdays.
Why do JWs celebrate wedding anniversaries and have baby shower celebrations?
You all are so mistaken.
What does celebrating wedding anniversaries and having baby showers have to do with celebrating birthdays? Wedding anniversaries are to celebrate an accomplishment as what celebrations are for. Celebrating the anniversary of one's birth is not an accomplishment. Especially for children.
It is just an excuse to have a party. And a foolish excuse when people spend hundreds of dollars on it.
"The ‘gentle times’ was a period of 42 months during which the ‘holy city’ was ‘trampled’"
No, that is not the gentile times. You didn't consider that Nathan told David that his offspring would sit on Jehovah's throne forever. But that ended when Jehoiakim lost that sovereignty. To not have that prophesy fail, Jehovah paused that for 2520 years. The Gentile times is from when it was paused until it stopped and Jesus became king because he didn't become king when he was on earth. It's that simple.
What does celebrating wedding anniversaries and having baby showers have to do with celebrating birthdays? Wedding anniversaries are to celebrate an accomplishment as what celebrations are for. Celebrating the anniversary of one's birth is not an accomplishment. Especially for children.
The day of the actual wedding ceremony there is a celebration/reception. What accomplishment is there for yearly celebrating that day again?
Why do JWs have baby shower celebrations? Isn't that actually a pre-birthday celebration?
(Food, cake, games with friends and family. Gifts for child in mom's belly who is about to be born.)
I'm still amazed by the beard nonsense. [..] Still astounded by the vast number of brothers who Immediately started growing one.
I completely agree. I've never liked having a beard - once I get a few days of stubble growth, I have to get rid of it - so the beard "controversy" was no issue to me, except that it always seemed ridiculous as a "rule". Surely, IF you were going to make a rule about beards, it would make more sense to say that men HAVE to have a beard, rather than say they SHOULDN'T, given Bible history (for example Leviticus 19:27)?
Then, when the "ban" was lifted, suddenly so many elders started growing beards! It seems bizarre to me. Were all these men really desperate to wear a beard but felt supressed by the GB "ruling"? Or was it a case of "kid in a sweetshop", that once something previously 'taboo' was made acceptable, they all wanted to rush to have a piece of that?
Over time, some have since shaved their beards off again but many have not, so I presume for many it was that they really did want to grow one (or perhaps their wife wanted them to), but they felt unable to.
Regarding birthdays, I understand what Rattigan means to an extent. Being born is an accident of circumstances for us (or fate, if you believe in that) - not something we put effort into. Whereas, making a marriage last another year requires effort from both parties.
However, you could say that surviving another year IS an achievement, especially it would have been so in previous cultures and societies when lifespans were short and there was high child mortality. The sad fact is that celebrating birthdays probably arose as a result of the fact that few children lived into adulthood.
Again, birthdays are something I'm 'agnostic' about. I have no kids or siblings, and never felt bothered about my own one way or another, so I don't really feel I have a strong opinion on the subject.
Regarding birthdays, I understand what Rattigan means to an extent. Being born is an accident of circumstances for us (or fate, if you believe in that) - not something we put effort into. Whereas, making a marriage last another year requires effort from both parties.
Marriage is supposed to be until death parts you from one another. So every year that both husband and wife live, then they are going to remain married. Therefore, if a married couple celebrates their wedding anniversary each year, what they are really celebrating is that neither one of them died during that year. Where's the effort in that?
If you claim that regardless of marriage supposing to be until death, that many get a divorce because they don't get along and have to put effort into making their marriage last year to year and therefore should celebrate each year that they make it, then I guess that can apply to any relationship friend or family member. You should celebrate every year with whomever you stay friends with and with whatever family you continue to have a relationship with. Doesn't it take effort to keep relationships with all people, not just spouses? Either celebrate yearly each and every relationship you have with a person or realized that it is foolish to think there is reason to celebrate a wedding date.
Again, the question I am waiting to hear an answer to from Rattigan is why do JWs have baby showers? And how does the reason for doing so not apply to year one and two, etc.. of that same child that a baby shower was given for?
Maybe the reason we celebrate birthdays is because we like to get together and party. I mean, holy crap, what kind of an organization makes you justify wanting to have a good time with some friends/family? lol.
Arguing against celebrating a birthday has got to be the stupidest things ever. Golly could it be that the parents are happy to have and appreciate the blessing of their child and want to show love for there child???
BTW why did the angels in heaven and the three kings celebrate Jesus's birth he didn't do anything yet?
Rattigan350:
No, that is not the gentile times. You didn't consider that Nathan told David that his offspring would sit on Jehovah's throne forever. But that ended when Jehoiakim lost that sovereignty. To not have that prophesy fail, Jehovah paused that for 2520 years. The Gentile times is from when it was paused until it stopped and Jesus became king because he didn't become king when he was on earth. It's that simple.
You don't get to tell me what I 'haven't considered'. I'm quite aware of this general superstition about David's throne (including the spurious genealogy in Matthew that invalidates application to Jesus as a descendant of Jeconiah), and the Adventist nonsense in particular. It's just wrong.
The same word rendered 'forever' in the verse Rattigan350 refers to (2 Samuel 7:13) is also used in reference to circumcision, the sabbath, owning individual slaves etc. It is a literary flourish and clearly does not literally mean for all eternity.
Journeyman
I also wondered if many brothers had been secretly desiring to have a beard for years, but now that the initial "fad" period has passed and many still are wearing them, I'm thinking in part its a case of 'wanting to belong' and sort of saying "See! I listen to the Govetning Body. I do what they do!"
