Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

pokertopia

There were two types of prophets: individual prophets and court prophets. For example, before Ahab went to war, 400 court prophets predicted Ahab's victory, but Michaya, an individual prophet, predicted his defeat. This is the fact that the king was training prophets under him.

The first part of the text of Isaiah must have been recorded by Isaiah, but the second half of Isaiah's book was to raise Cyrus as Jehovah's prophesied servant in appreciation of his achievements by court prophets who returned from later exile in Babylon. In doing so, it would have contributed to restoring their worship of Jehovah and promoting his outstanding abilities. One important reason for this view is that it is a mythological element that prophesied 150 years ago while specifying a person's name, and it is clear that such mythological elements are 100% ex-eventus prophecies. The true prophecy is only about very valid moral principles or natural phenomena. Therefore, in order to provide hope to humans, the Bible tried to increase its effectiveness by adding mythical elements that were used at the time, such as miracles or prophecies.

Jeffro

The Book of Isaiah is composed of three sections.

Chapters 1-39 - written by Isaiah (late 8th century BCE), though passages about the downfall of Babylon actually relate to Assyrian dominance over Babylon during the Neo-Assyrian period which began in the 8th century BCE during the reign of Tiglath-Pileser III. These are frequently retroactively ascribed by believers to the Persian defeat of Babylon (where the fact that Babylon is still inhabited is either ignored or glossed over with various trite excuses).

Chapters 40-55 - written near the end of the Babylonian exile or shortly after the initial return in 538 BCE. This section includes reference to Cyrus and the Persian defeat of Babylon.

Chapters 56-66 - a post-exilic work.

pokertopia

This article was forced by A.I. to be seen only by me and the moderators, are you a moderator?

It makes me feel that this social system is a violent evil structure that takes away human freedom and individual rights.

This system is bound to be put right. I believe that a transparent system is God's Kingdom.

wannabefree

I just happened to listen to an interesting podcast today with an historic viewpoint touching on this subject.

Dan Carlin's Hardcore History Episode 56 King of Kings.

Jeffro

pokertopia:

This article was forced by A.I. to be seen only by me and the moderators, are you a moderator?
It makes me feel that this social system is a violent evil structure that takes away human freedom and individual rights.
This system is bound to be put right. I believe that a transparent system is God's Kingdom.

Good grief. 🤦‍♂️🤣

Vidqun

Overall Josephus was a trustworthy historian. According to him Cyrus was aware of the Isaiah prophecy. This made him favor the Jews, allowing them to return to their homeland and rebuild the temple. Later Darius discovered Cyrus' edict and he allowed the Jews to carry on with their work. In the end the temple was rebuilt.

JOE Antiquities of the Jews 11:1 In the first year of the reign of Cyrus {a} which was the seventieth from the day that our people were moved out of their own land into Babylon, God pitied the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city,
2 that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity. And these things God did afford them;
3 for he stirred up the mind of Cyrus, and made him write this throughout all Asia:--``Thus says Cyrus the king: Since God Almighty has appointed me to be king of the habitable earth, I believe that he is that God which the nation of the Israelites worship;
4 for indeed he foretold my name by the prophets, and that I should build him a house at Jerusalem, in the country of Judea.''
5 This was known to Cyrus by his reading the book which Isaiah left behind him of his prophecies; for this prophet said that God had spoken thus to him in a secret vision:--``My will is, that Cyrus, whom I have appointed to be king over many and great nations, send back my people to their own land, and build my temple.''
6 This was foretold by Isaiah one hundred and forty years before the temple was demolished. Accordingly, when Cyrus read this, and admired the divine power, an earnest desire and ambition seized upon him to fulfil what was so written; so he called for the most eminent Jews that were in Babylon, and said to them, that he gave them permission to go back to their own country, and to rebuild their city of Jerusalem, {b} and the temple of God, (Ant 11:1-6)
``King Darius to Tatnai the governor, and to Shetharboznai, sends greeting. Having found a copy of this letter among the records of Cyrus, I have sent it you; and I will that all things be done as is therein written. Farewell.''
105 So when Tatnai, and those who were with him, understood the intention of the king, they resolved to follow his directions entirely for the time to come. So they forwarded the sacred works, and assisted the elders of the Jews, and the princes of the Sanhedrin (Ant 11:104, 105 JOE)

Jeffro

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Vidqun:

Overall Josephus was a trustworthy historian. According to him Cyrus was aware of the Isaiah prophecy. This made him favor the Jews, allowing them to return to their homeland and rebuild the temple. Later Darius discovered Cyrus' edict and he allowed the Jews to carry on with their work. In the end the temple was rebuilt.

Josephus repeating a Jewish tradition that existed by his time is not evidence that Cyrus or Darius actually said something or why. For a start, Cyrus did not make any special edict just for the Jews, but had a broader policy of allowing captives in Babylonia to return to their homelands and practice their own religious beliefs. This was in order to quell social unrest, for the same reason that Cyrus dedicated a temple to Marduk in Babylon.

3 for he stirred up the mind of Cyrus, and made him write this throughout all Asia:--``Thus says Cyrus the king: Since God Almighty has appointed me to be king of the habitable earth, I believe that he is that God which the nation of the Israelites worship;
4 for indeed he foretold my name by the prophets, and that I should build him a house at Jerusalem, in the country of Judea.''

Antiquities here interpolates part of Isaiah 44:28-45:1 (not written by Isaiah) into Ezra 1:2 rather than actually quoting Cyrus. The fact that Josephus interpolated the claim about Cyrus knowing of the supposed 'prophecy' (or quoted a Jewish tradition that had developed after the writing of Ezra) into the statement in Ezra is evident from the fact that the 'quote' in Antiquities isn't even consistent with what Ezra 1:1 says Cyrus proclaimed, and neither is consistent with Cyrus' broader policy rather than special treatment of just the Jews.

Vidqun

Yup, Jeffro, that's your opinion and that of many sceptics. However, Cyrus favoured the Jews. He actually sponsored them to build the temple. He returned the temple utensils. Why? Josephus explains the why. I set great store by his account. It explains a lot. In addition, the version according to the book of Ezra is confirmed by the Cyrus cylinder.

The main proponent of your theory is Prof. Lester L. Grabbe. He doesn't like the Bible or predictive prophecy at all. He has a serious gripe about "fundamentalism." I have his article on Daniel. You will like him. His whole purpose in life is to denigrate the Scriptures and prophecy. Although I must give him his due, he inspired me to do my research.

Jeffro

🤦‍♂️ For a start, the Cyrus Cylinder doesn’t mention the Jews at all let alone suggest they got special treatment.

Vidqun

But they did get special treatment. The golden temple utensils, raided by the Babylonians, were returned to them. So I go with Josephus, until proven otherwise.

Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

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