144,000 is a literal number

by Sour Grapes 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sour Grapes
    Sour Grapes

    JDubs are the only religion that believes that only 144,000 are going to heaven and of course they are all JDubs. The number is found in the Bible book of Revelation. I could never wrap my brain around the fact that the JDubs will openly tell you that everything else in the book Revelation is not literal and is symbolic. Does anyone know how they prove the number is literal even though every verse before or after the number is symbolic?

    I was an elder and struggled with this.

  • Vanderhoven7

    The WT recognizes that the tribes are symbolic as well they admit the 12,000 from each tribe are symbolic but that the total 12,000 times 12 is literal. No consistency here obviously.

    My take is that 144,000 is symbolic of the perfectly symmetrical church of God which represents an innumerable company of believers as the stars in heaven for multitude as promised to Abraham.

    John displays his images through the literary device of hearing and then seeing. EG: John hears a Lion and turns and sees the lamb. The lion contrasts with the lamb when in fact they are the same personage.

    Similarly, John hears the perfect symbolic number and turns and sees a great multitude; the church of God.

  • Acluetofindtheuser

    I think they had a Messiah complex from the beginning of the religion's founding. They thought they were a special group set apart from the rest of Christendom. They assumed everything in the scriptures were fulfilled in them. They see that part about 12,000 x 12 in Revelation, they are automatically going to assume it means them.

    They got into the habit of explaining everything in the scriptures as if it was directly from God. They assumed everything future meant them and every special angelic guy was Jesus. They just can't say we don't understand what this means right now and leave it unknown. They also simplify things too much and they assume everything is spiritual and there's no physical component to prophecy. He returned invisibly is one such example. The new heavens and new earth is symbolic is another.

  • eyeuse2badub

    This always bothered me also as a jw and an elder for over 2 decades. It's impossible to make sense of how jw's go from entirely symbolic to literal in the same frikin' verse. But, just like 2520 lunar years becomes 2520 solar years----MAGIC!

    just saying!

  • scratchme1010
    Does anyone know how they prove the number is literal even though every verse before or after the number is symbolic?

    I don't think I have anything useful, but I do want to mention that the WT is not the only religious organization using that number for things in their believes, including thinking that those will be the only ones who will ________ (fill the blank with a number of interpretations of that piece of information.

    I too struggled with that when I was a JW, but my solution to the conflict was not biblical.

  • nowwhat?

    Also the 144k are not male virgins as well

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