Moral High Ground

by Spoletta 19 Replies latest social current

  • Fisherman
    So why exactly is it that Islam won't be able to change?

    Your post makes logical sense but for Catholics the fiat comes from Rome and other Christian rival religions also have their heads who can dictate policy. Islam has no such ungered heads that can dictate change and the only fiat that can be expected is one with a car bomb.

  • bohm

    Islam has already been reformed... otherwise, there would be no such thing as "Islamic reformers".

    The problem in these conversations is that people talk about Islam as one thing and think about Islams religious texts, sexist and horrible as they may be, as determining what Muslims must believe similar to how Newtons laws determine how a ball drops to the ground.

    In practice, religion is nearly infinitely malleable and the religious texts of all religions (including Islam) can be interpreted in a million different ways.

  • Hairtrigger

    Every muslim believes that Islam will take over the world and their god Allah will subjugate the entire world into submission to islam. This is a deep rooted belief embraced by each and everyone of them. The majority remained silent while the Taliban and then the ISIS was running amuck. They wanted to believe that this was fulfillment of their scriptures. Make no mistake. These guys want the Sharia snice it is from their god allah to whom and whose will they must all submit. Why else would their women want the hijab in the US and the rest of the West when it is an imposition on their freedom? As for reform. Don't hold your breath. It isn't happening anytime soon. The only true reformer is the Aga Khan and his followers known as the Khojas. It is strange no one has asked his opinion on islam and what can be done to reform the Wahabi version.

  • Fisherman

    I have dealt with a couple types of Islamics in the US. One type is passive; this type is not very observant, the other types are more observant, and the higher up you go in being observant, the more aggressive and expressions of forced change and punishment to those that break Islamic laws or do not embrace their religion.

  • Spoletta

    So, do we just admit defeat? So far, from the majority of the responses, it seems to be the consensus is it's us or them. So do we destroy them first? That will be quite a trick.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    @Spoletta - the way I see it, there should be a two pronged approach: we need to reform Islam, if only in Western countries. And multiple countries should work together to wipe out terrorists.

    It won't happen overnight.

  • Hairtrigger

    If yu think JW'S Are a cult or the Mormons or Scientiologists think again. Wahabi muslims and all their adherents are indoctrinated a hundred times more.

    How successful is the movement in exposing these three cults. Realistically speaking? Now imagine the insurmountable task of getting billions of Muslims to get out of cult mode. Mohammed was the father of this cult. And he has rivited his teachings into the minds of his followers so deep that even a nuke won reach it to dislodge.

    I would advocate reading the Quran to understand the extent of the madmans cultic teachings. English translations are available although they won't call it "translations" since their god wanted them to read his words only in arabic.

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    Well let's not lose sight of the fact that Christian's had a little help from Jesus. A peace loving hippy who went around saying things like "love your neighbor as yourself", "return evil for to evil to no one", and "be peaceable to all men" kinda goes a long way. To be fair, I find myself complaining a lot more about how Christians DON'T follow Jesus rather than the ways in which they do follow the guy.

    But conversely, Muhammad was a war lord who said things like "lay in wait to attack the poly theist", "kill apostates", and "wage jihad against the non-believer". We are genuinely terrified when Muslims act in accordance with the founder of their religion.

    There's no two ways about it. Any reform of Islam is going to have it's work cut out for it. And is going to have many challenges Christianity simply didn't have not the least of which is that Muhammad claimed to be the "final revelation". While I appreciate the work people like Maajid Nawaz are doing I sometimes feel that an outright rejection of the Quran and organized Theism would be far more effective instead of trying to reinterpret dogmatic scripture.

  • Spoletta

    Luhe. Totally agree with you. But all concerned countries need to get on board.

  • cofty
    modern Christianity has made further positive steps to turn their back on more of what is wrong in the Bible ... There is no reason Islam cannot also progress down a similar path - JWFacts

    One of the blocks to reform is that the quran is held to be directly dictated by Allah. Every single letter of every syllable is his word. Where there are conflicting statements later sayings supercede earlier ones.

    As Muhammad became more powerful in Medina his pronouncements became more aggressive towards infidels replacing the conciliatory sayings of the Meccan period.

    Many western terrorists were radicalised by Mullahs who introduced them to the quran in their own language. Previously they had only learned to recite verbatim in Arabic. It is a poisonous book. The Hadith and Sira offer no way out either.

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