Romans 10: 9 Simple Salvation - Not So Fast Says WT.

by Sea Breeze 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Halcon
    So, if you are good with a man who resurrected himself from the dead being the Lord of your life, that's about all there is to getting saved. Living the Christian life is a 3 step process though.1.Justification2. Sanctification3.Glorification

    How would you define each of these steps seabreeze?

  • Vidqun

    Don't worry Sea Breeze, I looked it up. Seems like they view the broken off branches as the natural Jews and the wild branches as the 144,000. But then they still have the problem with the remnant of natural Jews that is going to be saved. Sometime in future these will be regrafted to the tree because of His promises to their forefathers.

    So this is how I see it: Natural branches (Jewish remnant) + wild olive branches (Christians) = All Israel, i.e., the Israel of God (Rom. 11:25, 26; Gal. 6:15, 16).

    According to the Watchtower: What do the various features of the symbolic olive tree represent?

    The symbolic olive tree of Romans 11
    • The tree: the fulfillment of God’s purpose regarding the Abrahamic covenant

    • The trunk: Jesus, the principal part of Abraham’s offspring

    • The branches: the full number of the secondary part of Abraham’s offspring

    • The “broken off” branches: natural Jews who rejected Jesus

    • The “grafted in” branches: spirit-anointed Christians out of the nations

    As foretold, Abraham’s offspring​—Jesus and the 144,000—​will bring blessings “to people of the nations.”​—Ro 11:12; Ge 22:18

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze


    Websters 1828 Dictionary is a great resource in researching Christianity. JW's are not the only ones to deceive by changing definitiuons of words. Sorry about the negative review. Hit the wrong button. is also very doctrinally solid.


    Yes, that all sounds about right. Here's a good discussion on the topic. The thing a person wants to look out for is Replacement Theology, which is the view that believers completely replaced Israel. Jewish believers remain in the tree but are joined with Gentiles and “made” into a “new body,” ("one new man") the Church (Ephesians 2:11–22).

    Gentile Christians are not the trunk, we are the branches that are grafted in. The nation of Israel will be the premiere nation on earth some day with Jesus as King. It will no longer be a byword and an object of laughter among the nations.

    The tree or righteousness (belief and trust in God) that God planted in Abraham will come into full bloom during the 1K yr. reign of Jesus.

  • Vidqun

    Sea Breeze, I believe in "supplemental" theology in the sense that the Israel concept was enlarged to include the nations, i.e., Christians. There is a debate as to what the trunk symbolizes. Jesus is the root, as many scriptures indicate (cf. Is. 11:10; 53:2; Rom. 15:12; Rev. 5:5; 22:6; cf. Rom. 11:17, 18). The wild olive branches would be the people of the nations, i.e., Christians. Natural branches, to be grafted in again, would be the Jewish remnant.

    Originally, Israel was in a privileged position: "who, as such, are Israelites, to whom belong the adoption as sons and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the sacred service and the promises; to whom the forefathers belong and from whom the Christ [sprang] according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:4, 5 NWT). Now they must share these privileges with the people of the nations: "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him." (Rom. 10:12 NWT)

    Israel would have been the premier nation if they stayed the course. Now only a remnant will be saved (Rom. 10:22, 23; cf. Is. 10:22, 23). While Jesus was on earth, they claimed their superiority because of being offspring of Abraham (Luke 8:39, 44). But Paul explained Abraham was righteous, not because of circumcision, but because of his faith (Gal. 3:6, 7). On this basis Christians also become “offspring” of Abraham, because of their faith (3:8, 9, 29).

  • Rattigan350

    "if you confess with your mouth".

    Sounds like it applies only to his readers as all of the other letters from Paul go.

    Paul is not the authority here.

    And that 1963 W is correct. Jesus could not have been resurrected in the body that he lived in as he could not ascend beyond the atmosphere.

    It had to be a body of spirit as he was at the right hand of God.

  • Rattigan350

    Sea Breeze said "Before the cross, Jesus predicted that he would resurrect himself from the dead, while he was dead."

    No, he did not predict that. There was no cross. Jesus did not predict that he would resurrect himself, because he would be dead.

    "So, if you are good with a man who resurrected himself from the dead being the Lord of your life, that's about all there is to getting saved. Living the Christian life is a 3 step process though.

    1. Justification

    2. Sanctification

    3. Glorification"

    None of those 3 are part of Christianity. What ever happened to "I will cause a boy who drives a plow to know more of the scriptures than the pope."

    No one needs to know those 3 words listed above.

  • Rattigan350

    It is simple. The structure was that Israel was God's people. Then they became unfaithful and in Jer 31 a new covenant was given to where the structure would still be Israel but not of the flesh, but of the spirit.

    We can't rely upon what Jesus said and not on what Paul said. Neither of them knew that the structure would be limited to 144,000. That was not revealed until Revelation.

    Starting at Pentecost, the Israelites were anointed with holy spirit and adopted into the covenant, then in Acts 8 the Samaritans, then in Acts 10 the Gentiles. Then people in general whom God chose were anointed with holy spirit until the 144,000 were filled. This was filled around the mid 1990s.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze


    Is Jesus your Personal Savior and Mediator for you for the forgiveness of sins?

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    My bible says that “if any man hath not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his”. - Romans 8: 9

    The only way to get the spirit of Christ is by being born again and declared righteous (Justified in KJV) by the blood of the covenant “for the forgiveness of sins” , the one JW's reject.

    How will you avoid the wrath of God if you are not Justified?

    Romans 5: 1&9 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:…being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    The Watchtower has lied to you and told you the NC is only for a ticket to heaven, when in reality it is “for the forgiveness of sins (Mt. 26: 27–28) regardless of destinations.

    Without being declared righteous by the blood of the covenant (Justified) you have nothing but Judgment and Wrath in store for you.

    I’m not talking about religion here. This is what God requires clearly in his word. There is room in the house about disagreements on other stuff, but not this one. Utterly non-negoitable.

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