“Hanging the earth upon nothing”

by FFGhost 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  joey jojo

  Genesis chapter 1 is full of scientific errors and its interesting to see how apologists deal with them.

  Argument:God created vegetation before the Sun, so how did the plants survive for eons?

  Apologists: God had already created light on day 1 and thats how.

  Argument: We only have light becuse of the Sun- it gets pretty dark at night- light from the Sun isnt pervasive at night. The Sun wasnt created until after the vegetation.

  Apologists: But it says God created the heavens on day 1.

  Argument: The hebrew word for sky, 'hassamayim' also means 'air', the place where birds fly, it doesnt mean the place where the sun, moon and stars exist.

  Gen 1:1 could be translated , 'in the beginning God created the sky and the earth', which gives a completely different connotation to the modern reader. From the point of view of the ancient hebrew audience, the place where the stars, moon and sun exist is the 'firmament' (raqia), which translates to something like a flat,beaten sheet of metal.

  And we havent even got to the flood story yet.
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  peacefulpete

  The bible is unique in many aspects. It stands alone as different from other writings at the time. For example the code of Hammurabi, which is considered to precede that of the Torah, has lead critics to say that the Torah was merely a copy from the Babylonian empire.

  Joe134cd..Yes the Bible is unique just as every civilization and their legal codes are unique. It might surprise you that Hammurabi lived well over a thousand years before the writing of Leviticus or Deuteronomy. It is often cited as an example of an ancient extensive legal code with some uncanny parallels to the later Jewish code.
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  Phizzy

  • Joe, have you checked all these out ? I haven't, (Lazy bugger me) but wonder if they may have helped the Bible writers along ? also remember that the Hebrew Bible was cobbled together, Edited and Redacted and interpolations added after the Babylonian Exile, so maybe Babylonian, even Persian Law comes into the mix too ?
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  • Code of Urukagina (2380–2360 BCE)
  • Code of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur (c. 2050 BCE). Copies with slight variations found in Nippur, Sippar and Ur
  • Laws of Eshnunna (c. 1930 BCE)[1]
  • Codex of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (c. 1870 BCE)[2]
  • Babylonian law
    • Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE in middle chronology)
  • Hittite laws, also known as the 'Code of the Nesilim' (developed c. 1650–1500 BCE, in effect until c. 1100 BCE)
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  joe134cd

  Pracefulpete: you raise some very good points. I was aware of the time frame between the 2 laws. Interestingly, a counter argument to the uncanny parallels between the 2 laws could be explained this way. They were similar because humanity has always faced the same problems. So of course there had to be laws to counter antisocial behaviour, and consequences for transgressors. I guess the same claim could be made today, that the U.S constitution has been plagiarised from the mosaic law. to a point it has. Hence laws on sewage disposal, quarantine, corporal punishment are still relevant today. Really over the course of 6000 years human nature still remains the same. Solomon wisely said man has brought man to his injury, so there has to be procedures put in place to minimise, or litigate this.
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  waton

  joe134cd Pracefulpete: you raise some very good points.

  The OP was not about laws to tame human behaviour, but the way our plane planet has been in stable orbit for 4.5 billion years to have life exist on Earth, and try to find explanations. and

  Here too is a balance of pull and push in action, lifting out of gravity wells by energy, versus the counteracting concentrating forces of gravity.

  May be Prof. Lawrence Krauss took the title of his book: " A universe [created] from Nothing" from the verse: "the Earth hanging on Nothing"

  Energy both quotations. .
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  joe134cd

  Waton. In a way having two laws from different time periods, and peoples. Would testify that the events in Genises were accurate history. Why? Because their neighbours, the Chaldean’s, we’re having much the same problems. Although the bible is not primarily a science manual it does however stands out as unique, as it mentions things that were not known at the time. Even if it says it had 4 corners in one part and round in another. One has to ask how did Isiah know it was round. He stated so because he was talking literally and in the book of reverlation its talking symbolically. “Let the reader use discernment.”
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  peacefulpete

  Much like the fellow looking up and seeing no strings holding up the earth so the man who uses the idiom "circle of the earth" is someone looking around. The land around us is always a circle.
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  joe134cd

  Peacefulpete: You are quite mistaken here. This is off the top of my head. But I think the Hebrew word, used here, for circle is “Chun.” Although in this instance it is rendered as circle it is more closely translated as “sphere.” The word actually depicts more a round ball shape object than it does a circle.
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  TonusOH

  If they were being guided by a being who literally knew everything, it would have been useful for the book to offer some of this knowledge clearly and directly. Imagine telling us that the Earth was a sphere that rotated around the sun, part of a galaxy of planets that were in orbits around a star. No interpretation required, just information that would make it clear that these men had access to a source of knowledge that transcended us.

  The vagueness of these passages only becomes evident as humanity learns more and realizes that the initial impressions were wrong. No firmament. No corners. No foundation. I've seen Islamic believers explaining how a modern interpretation of the Quran shows it to bear scientific knowledge that could only have come from God (apparently, they believe that the Quran explains the motion of the deep ocean currents, something men of the time could not possibly know about). Does the Christian accept these verses and the new interpretation?
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  peacefulpete

  Peacefulpete: You are quite mistaken here.

  
  

  
  

  Strongs says..............
  
  

  chug: a circle -- circle, circuit, compass. Is 40:22

  "sits above the circle of the earth...spreads heavens like a tent"

  The imagery of a tent spanning over a coin shaped flat earth is much easier to imagine than a tent over a ball. Sitting above the earth also fits this flat earth model better. Why would god sit above the north pole (which they did not know existed) to see the people of the earth? at best he would see the northern hemisphere.

  dur: a circle, ball.....Is 22:18

  He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball (Dur) into a large country...

  
  

  Obviously both words can mean, round, all around, circle, circuit. However the same book uses dur when the author wishes to describe a ball. It's all not really worth arguing about and no one would feel the need to if believers didn't keep repeating the same tired old canards they had been told and accepted unquestioningly.