I have had some conversations with ex-jw women and I am more than a little concerned at how, if a female, is treated in committee meetings. It sure seems (I experienced this when I was young) that the elders have a commonality in trying to create such shame and sexual guilt (especially where none is deserved) that it is beyond abuse. I know there are a lot of former elders here. Does the society train the elders to think like dirty old men in their questioning. Are there training lessons for this at elder schools or elder books?
I think in general the Jay dubs are obsessed with sex.
My son has a girlfriend from school and the only thing my mother could think to say along with that facial expression of disappointment was "at least you are the parents of the boy if she gets pregnant".
WTF moment for me. Why assume they are even sexually active? Because only JWs have morals - so they think.
YES they do. But not in the way you think.
Former elder here. The key to remember is this: The WT Org does NOT train elders to be any more sensitive to women than anyone else. They have ZERO sensitivity training, which is especially appalling given the fact that any type of committee meeting will ALWAYS be intimidating and degrading. And yes, some elders are ridiculous in their thinking, and their way of treating women as a lesser class. Yes, some just love hearing all the juicy details of affairs, sexual escapades, and so on... Yes, for the most part, JWś are a sex-starved bunch.
On the other hand, there are a few good elders out there that try their best, given the LACK of training for anything other than enforcing rules.
I can remember very clearly sitting in on judicial meetings with several women, on sex-type issues. It was embarrassing for me to be a part of the meeting with them (granted, not as embarrassing as it was for them), because I felt bad that they were pouring out their hearts in great detail over such insanely personal matters. The other brothers wanted DETAILS! I can also remember vividly STOPPING other elders from asking stupid questions that did nothing other than give them a chubby... like ¨how far did he put it in there? How many times? What other positions did you do it in?¨ Yes, for real.
The first time that happened, I called a recess, dismissed the poor young lady, and gave the guy an earful! Any time after that, I made it very clear in our discussion beforehand, that such details were NOT part of the process. They were merely a way for these semi-perverts to justify their personal fantasies.
One young lady in particular, who was actually a fairly close friend, told me later that she really appreciated me standing up for her. Yes, she had done the nasty, repeatedly, everywhere, for quite a while....... but it did not need to be rehashed and dwelt upon by a group of creepy old dudes! UGH!
So in a nutshell.....no, WT does not train for this. WT doesnt care about women. If you dont have a penis, you arent worthy. I dont think they necessarily TRY to create an atmosphere of shame and guilt.... they just arent trained to do otherwise. And because they DO have a penis, they get away with it.
...elders have a commonality in trying to create such shame and sexual guilt (especially where none is deserved) that it is beyond abuse.
You don't need to be an elder to know, see and experience the culture that they promote. They don't have the first clue about anything regarding any type of diversity, cultural sensitivity, or inclusion.
With women, (just my thoughts), I think that it may feel extra brutal because they condition them to believe that they are weaker by nature, and that their place is one of submission. Even if they are in fact sensitive, the place that they put them in their lives (according to them) isn't one of fairness to them.
Once thing I want to add is that the same shaming applies to everyone. They just everything and everyone exactly with the same things, using the same tools, and thinking that the problem is the same. Equally damaging is the shaming applied to anyone who has a mental health issue, who is a member of the LGBT+ community, children, or anyone at any social disadvantage, including males.
Tech49 said it perfectly. As a elder for over 24 years I saw really good and humble men and really bad ones. Unfortunately as time went on I had to deal with the really bad elders. Some being circuit overseer and P.O. It was the older elders that was the worse because they didn't keep up with training to show kindness and concern for those who was hurting spritualy. For most new elders they were told to observe the others elders on how they did things. If you were on a body of good elders you had good examples to follow but if you were on a bad body of elders your good examples was far and between. Yes we had the so called elder book but a person needs more than one book to handle such a important responsible in caring for a congregation.
In my last few years in the Borg there was serveral committees I was on and I basically had to counsel the other elders on how badly they was treating the accused. I even stop a committee meeting in the middle of it. Asked the accused to leave the room for a few minutes and gave the other two elders stern counsel on how to treat a person who wants help.
For many elders I saw it was just a power thing with them while the good ones became fewer and fewer. It was one of the many things that help me wake up and leave. In my opinion the congregations are being lead by uneducated men to do the job properly. Still Totally ADD
I remember there being a very young and attractive girl in my congregation many years ago who was quite free-sprited and was apparently always up to know good. There was a lot of pressure on her to get baptised, and I can see why now. The elders wanted her to get baptised so that they could call a judicial hearing and listen to all of the titillating details about her reportedly rampant sex life. They have to get their stimulation from somewhere I suppose, elder's wives aren't exactly known for their sexual prowess.
She did get baptised eventually, but much to the elders' irritation, she calmed down and got married when that happened. So it was back to the soft porn and guilt for them.
Stories!! I am a dirty old man too and want to hear them. Not really. A little kindness goes a long way. Lots of us were "immoral", when in reality we were just easing into marriage. Without the rules I would have taken in, cared for, cherished, and valued a certain girl sooner. THEIR so called spirituality had/has little or nothing to do with the success of this marriage.