Question about JW and Brooklyn

by Eppie 12 Replies latest jw friends

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  Eppie

  Hai all,

  I have a question: When I read on this site i notice that many people are upset by the organisation of JW and not necessarily their beliefs (also, but less upset maybe?).

  I have a question though: We talk about JWs being indoctrinated and brainwashed etc., but where does it originate? Do you think that the 'brothers' in Brooklyn are just making things up when they are writing their Watchtower and Awakes? Are they religious as well and just think they are doing the right thing or are they just scheming everything? I also heard something about money, do they do it for that? Also: br Russel (or was it Rutherford, hmmm i was baptised and I forgot this, blimey ) who started the whole thing up, was he just really looking for answers and did it all get out of hand or was he planning smth like this all along?

  Why are you upset with the organisation, who is the 'brain' behind this religion? Is there really someone sitting somewhere laughing his guts out because he can do this to 5 million people, knowing that there is no contact with God at all?

  Thanks in advance for your answers!

  Eppie
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  blackout

  Hmmmm...

  I have wondered this myself Eppie, and I also have wondered what they are doing with the billions of dollars they get each year????

  Anyone got an idea?
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  Fe2O3Girl

  Charles Taze Russell was the driving force behind the Watchtower Society. After his death in 1916, Joseph F Rutherford was elected as president of the Watchtower Society.

  As I understand it, Rutherford took over running the WT with an iron grip. Around this time, a group of Bible Students broke away from the WT Society. They maintained that the purpose of the WT Society had never been to direct and rule the local congregations as Rutherford was doing, and that had not been the intention of CT Russell. This group still exists, and some posters on this board are Bible Students. Maybe "RR" can verify or expand on this.

  A lot of the current JW organisation hinges on the "faithful and discreet slave class" idea, commonly abbreviated to FDS on this board. JWs teach that FDS is supposed to be God's channel of communication to his followers, and is made up of the annointed remnant on earth. In reality, all doctrine is issued by the Governing Body, not by the few thousand who claim to be annointed.

  I have also wondered what is going through the minds of that handful of old men in Brooklyn, holding life or death decisions for millions of believers. They signed the forms to apply for UN NGO status, they sanctioned bribing officials in Mexico while brothers in Malawi were bineg killed for not carrying a party card, they flip flopped teaching on organ transplants, what blood fractions are allowed and whether to shun a person who was never baptised. So they, unlike the average publisher sat in your local kingdom hall, are not ignorant of the hypocrisy. They also know how pointless and inefficient the door to door work is, while they urge the publishers to do more and more and more.

  Are they really sitting in their ivory tower, beliving that they are being guided by God's holy spirit, as they simply vote on what teaching to adopt?

  We can never know what is in the mind and heart of each of those men.

  My opinion is this - they have all served the WT society all their lives. By the time they reach that position of power, they probably saw through the smoke and mirrors years ago. They stick with it for the glory, the power, and the very comfortable lifestyle. Maybe they convince themseles that what they are doing to millions of JWs is good for them - maybe they are just evil. I don't know. But they are responsible.

  As long as families are torn apart and people are dying because of those mens teachings, there will be wounded, angry people to denounce the governing body. And it is happening because of their teachings, not because of God's commands. If the Watchtower said tomorrow that blood transfusions were allowed, nobody had to shun the disfellowshipped, and they did not have to go door to door anymore, ask yourself honestly - what would happen? They would happily (probably very happily) take it all in.

  My £0.02 worth!
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  Nathan Natas

  At the risk of sounding metaphysical, I'll suggest that the "person" you seek to identify is - today at least - a "group entity" - a composite mind created and reinforced by psychofeedback from members of the cult.

  I'm pretty convinced that Russell may have started out as a seeker of truth who quickly got lost in the briar-patch of the personality cult that evolved around him, and I am likewise certain that Rutherford and his two "boys" Franz and Knorr (who are the two responsible for creating the Beth-Sarim cover story) knew at some point in their lives that they were perpetrating a hoax of cosmic proportions. I mean, the 1925 resurrection of the prophets; people really accepted and BELIEVED that crap! And ther where at least some of the youth who received the "Children" book from Rutherford wo took the oath of spinsterhood AND KEPT TO IT. I knew one of these poor dear true believing souls myself - she denied herself a life while she waited for her King to bring on the end of the world.

  True believing parents have permitted their children - their only true connection to the future - and marriage mates have allowed their spouses - the centers of their lives - to die because groupthink energized a Sock-Puppet to say that saving a life was an abomination to the Giver Of Life.

  I've read here of elders in the congregations who have said, in essence, "I believe that the Holy Spirit directs the appointing of elders. I have been appointed as an elder, therefore that was directed by the Holy Spirit. Therefore the thoughts that come to me are also directed by the Holy Spirit."

  It's a vicious circle, with each sucessively higher level in the hierarchy being fed by the "upward spralling" thoughts and beliefs of those at lower levels.

  That does not excuse any of them. They are still wrong, and their organzation is still corrupt. It is just a bit more difficult to pin the tail on a donkey that is so diffused.
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  RR

  Personally, I think the men behind the atchtower actually believe their own hype, namely that they are God's chosen.

  I think for the most part that things have been going on for so long as they are that they will do anything to continue it.

  It's no longer about Truth, but survival. You might have a few sincere ones withjin the movement, but the majority are in it for the power and glory.

  "A few might ask themselves: 'Do I want to be prominent? Am I ambitious for authority now or as a future joint heir with CHrist?'" The Watchtower 02/15/03 p. 20

  RR
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  Liberty

  Hi Eppie,
  

  The short answer to your question is yes, the Watch Tower Society leadership does just make up their twisted theology and then force feeds it to the rank & file JWs as God's own truth. Over the years the WTS has deliberatly confused the source of this "spirit inspired direction" but by putting together information from court documents, letters, and insider info it becomes clear that the basic foundations of the whole JW philosophy was invented by just a few individuals: Russel, Rutherford, Knorr, and most importantly for JWs over the last 50 years, Fred Franz. Rutherford and Fred Franz being the most responsible for almost everything current JWs believe. The standard JW response that, "we are not a cult because we don't follow a powerful human leader" is a complete falsehood(unknown to rank & file JWs) because the WTS has for most of its history been under the complete control of one or two leaders at any given time and under the control of a very small and exclusive group since the late 1970's. Despite the carefully crafted appearance of doctrinal consistancy the WTS's theology has been ever changing and modified to fit the whims of the leadership and changing circumstances which further proves God has had nothing to do with it since Jah's instructions would be perfect, complete, and immutable. I highly recommend you read Ray Franz's excellent books Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom to get a real feel for what we are talking about. Ray was Fred Franz's nephew and an actual member of the Governing Body.

  As to money, only Russel and Rutherford personally abused their donations and lived extravigant lifestyles in a blatent manner as this was easier to hide in the old days. Knorr, Franz, and the modern G.B. certainly lived/live comfortable lives but were/are more careful about being too visibly materialistic. I don't think money, in of itself, was ever what drove these leaders but rather the power and respect they had as important religious leaders. Someone with a talent like Knorr's could have made much more money in private business than he ever did as a Watch Tower leader but could never have garnered the respect, adulation, or complete control he had as a Watch Tower president. The Society as a collective is wealthy beyond most JWs' wildest dreams but I think the leadership enjoys the power and control such wealth brings much more than the luxuries it could buy them as individuals.
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  NameWithheld

  All of the 'top' men in the WTBTS today are left over 'yes' men from the Knorr/Franz era. They have risen the ranks of WT power by accepting the status quo and perpetuating it. So once they rise the to 'top' they are thoughly invested in making the system continue as is. Everything in WT land is now 'rule by commitee' and the surest way to ensure things never change is to place a commitee in charge. These men are getting quite old, probably at this point HAVE to believe that what they are doing is right just to sleep at night.

  You can see by the way things are run that in some ways a true armageddon reality is still thought, I think that they believe all they have to do is hold out for a few more years and the big "A" will happen. Thats why I think we see the band aid fixes applied to UN, child molestation, etc. Otherwise they would react like the Catholic chuch and at least make noises like they were changing. Instead they as usual, retreat and try to ignore the problem.

  I cannot even begin to imagine the true phycosis of the men in the GB. I'm sure it's one messed up bunch of men. Remember that their entire life is invested in armageddon, of course they have an advantage over the rank and file JWs - free room, board, and medical until death. Oh yea, and they are basically worshiped by the bethel lackeys too contributing to the HUGE egos these men have.
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  metatron

  This is a tough question to answer because it's so difficult to imagine how any person could continue in such a deceptive role.

  I can only offer some observations: First, it is very difficult to confront the fact that you've given years of your life away to a

  pretentious, corrupt organization. I really think awakening to this reality is enough to kill some older people in the 'truth'.

  Second, knowledge is 'compartmentalized' , like any clandestine organization. The internet has exposed a lot of internal

  information that otherwise would only be known by a handful of Witnesses in the past. It's easier to maintain control if only a

  few people know things like Rutherford's drinking and 'personal cook' (mistress).

  Third, there is an extreme isolation of thought in this organization aided by isolated institutions like Bethel. You have to experience

  Bethel to understand how everything is dominated by (almost entirely) childless old men - some of them single all of their lives.

  Add to that the anti-education bias that's existed for years, and you you can see how they can retain doctrines that "levitate",

  suspended in mid-air, without any support - chronology, anti-evolution, 1914 and so on. There's no detailed defense, no in depth

  responsa, nothing - just 'here's the truth, accept it".

  taken all together, it's a most remarkable mindset.

  metatron
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  NameWithheld

  Remember too, once they get to the positions of power, they have been trampled by those above them their entire life. Finally they have a chance to return the favor. Don't kid yourself as to how intoxicating complete and total power over other people's lives can be. They can literally do or say anything to their lackeys - whatever they demand is done.
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  Gamaliel

  Eppie,

  I'm with Nathan on this one. For a few years, I was good friends with a couple of the GB members, and I spoke often with a couple of others. I don't think you could necessarily point to any one of them and say they were in it knowing they were out to create a deception. They were in it for the same reasons that you and I were in it, or more accurately, the same reasons that district and branch overseers were in it. If they were sincere they bought into the heaven and paradise earth idea and they were saving lives. Protecting the organization's reputation through rough times was merely a way to make sure that people weren't stumbled at the mistakes of men and therefore more lives could be saved. Protection of one's position and the power, honor, and glory that went with it, was wrapped up in the rationale behind the entire "Theocratic" arrangement that Jehovah wanted them to serve and protect. It was OK for them to think of minor things that might be wrong and need changing, but it was impossibe for a singe individual, even if a GB member, to think of major sweeping changes that would prove the entire organization had been wrong.

  Most of us were the same way when we were sincere JWs. We could think of one or two things being wrong, but rarely gave ourselves the opportunity to think the whole structure was wrong. We had bound this religion up with our survival and our basic needs. Our survival instincts would not have allowed our mind to play out those scenarios any more than we would contemplate eating poison or burning down our house.

  Most people here are aware that most any male who played loyal organization man for long enough could become an elder. It's probably a given that circuit, district and branch overseers showed an extra level of loyalty to the organization (and political savvy) to get recognized. The abiltity to organize and lead and the desire to hear their own voice from a platform attracted a few of the personalities that were naturally "powerful" and maybe a few "power-hungry." (Not that they all were, of course.) Add to this idea the fact that most of the Governing Body became JWs in the Rutherford or early Knorr era, where the "Theocratic Rule" was more with an iron hand and fist. The only way their skills could be recognized by the mother organization is if they were already displaying some of the organization coldness that it took to make organizationally correct decisions behind the scenes, while able to smile and laugh with the rank and file. It creates a kind of unnatural dual personality so that a cold, secretive personality can handle the organizational stuff. Regular elders have the same responsibility, but often haven't learned to create the two personalities yet. Many elders still tell their wives and others about judicial hearings, for example.

  I have an uncle who was in the circuit work, and he's about the most sincere JW I've ever met. He is not even judgmental about my own situation, even though I've been out for 25 years. (he told me last year at my grandmother's funeral that for all he knows, my brother and sister and I might be closer to Jehovah than he is but that he'd love to see us try to get back into the organization. We could do so much good, etc., etc, and Jehovah would surely bless us with more opportunities to good for everyone, etc, etc. But he was offered the appointment because he had opened up several congregations while serving where the "need was greater" and showed himself to be a skilled organizer. But, he didn't have the necessary coldness however and soon dropped out of the circuit work. I think Ray Franz must have had a similar experience moving from a missionary assignment in the Caribbean to the GB.

  Gamaliel