Reconciling with Dad

by jws 10 Replies latest jw experiences

  • jws
    jws

    As you may or may not know from previous posts, I am a born & raised JW who just drifted away (no df/da) from a father and two sisters who still keep the JW faith. And while my father is aware that I have "apostate" beliefs of some kind, he prefers not to hear of it. As a result, we still enjoy each other's company and nobody has "shunned" me. I have usually repsected his right to practice his religion, though I know it to be a false one.

    Every now and then, he will make a tear-filled plea for me to come back. For in his heart, he is going to live in paradise with my deceased mother and he will have to explain to her that her boys are lost. She will never see us again. At such times, when he tries to pull me back in, I take off the gloves and tell him various reasons why I could never be a JW and preach those lies again. And, while I haven't changed his views and he still feels his loss, we go back to this sort of detant, not bringing up the subject for a while.

    Over the past several weeks, however, I felt like he was trying to sneak it in subtly. He'd talk about the president wanting to go to war. Or he'd talk about all the starving in Africa. Maybe these are just things on his mind and he's making conversation. But in my mind, it started to feel like he's trying to make me feel like "look at what's happening! This proves the end is right around the corner! Think about what you're doing and come back before it's too late!"

    So, last week, I started fighting back on topics. Like, when he'd mention these "signs", I'd always respond with things like, oh, that doesn't compare to this or that. That famine doesn't compare to the one in China in the 1800's where 50 million died, or whatever the figure was (I had it handy at the time). And last weekend, one thing led to another and I started saying I think that once the old GB dies off, there'll be some changes. That 1914, for instance, is known within Bethel to be unsupportable and it'd probably be dropped some day. To which he says it's well established. After laughing, I referred him to Jer 25:12 and asked him whether that jived with what his religion taught. If 70 years ended with the Jews returning to Jerusalem, how can the king of Babylon (dead for about 2 years) be punished after 70 years ends? I asked him to look that up. It's not wrong to look in the Bible, is it? No, he said, but I could tell he wasn't writing it down and wasn't going to dare even touch it.

    Somewhat sorry for the way I handled it, this week, I talked to him about it and apologized for attacking his beliefs and we've agreed to back off. He says it was worrying him and if I continued, that it would split us apart and he didn't want to see that happen. I asked him, if I could show him that something the JWs were teaching was wrong, would he want to know about it or continue believing something false. He said he didn't want to know about it. But then dismissed it by alluding to the fact that there's many different viewpoints in religion. In other words, it might sound like the JWs are false, but they really aren't - it's some sort of fancy trick. That he doesn't want to hear about it because it's all BS anyway because the JWs are right, no matter what.

    So, we dropped it, but I'm somewhat infuriated. Looking back, he doesn't acknowledge that his precious JWs could ever have any problems and threatened to cut ties with me if I insisted they did. But so be it, I still love him. And whatever keeps the peace.

    But, makes me wonder about it all though. Let me first of all state that I do believe in God and the Bible. I'm not part of a religion and probably never will be. I don't have an answer or grand plan and don't feel I need to explain everything in the Bible. I don't feel that lack of an explanation for everything makes my beliefs invalid. But I do know some teachings are wrong and the JWs are wrong.

    So the question becomes my father. What do you do with somebody like this? The man is very loving and is a very good person, but he's very tied to his religion. He's in his late 70's and this is all he knows. All his friends are JWs. All his social activities are JW ones. It's what keeps him going. Take it away and you take away his reason to live. I fear that if I somehow do find a way to make him see how wrong it is, he will feel deeply affected. Everything he's lived the past 50 years for has been for a lie. If he sees that, what hope does he have? That sort of thing can be devastating. The thing that makes people sit around and wait to die. And as a result, it happens sooner.

    He needs to follow something, I don't have a replacement. I often wonder what God thinks. Does God think, here's this man who follows men and spreads lies about me to others, entraping them in service to men rather than me. This man doesn't deserve my Grace. Is that the way God would feel? No matter how sincere he is and kind? Or would he see this man for being kind and, though he serves men, see that he believes he serves God? Or does he need to be pulled away from the JWs? If I do, I fear for his reaction. Perhaps he will turn his back on God altogether and become a bitter old man.

    Anyone else feel the same struggle I do with their JW friends/family?

  • happyout
    happyout

    I feel a similar struggle sometimes, because I think my family should see the "truth" about their religion, and then if they choose to stay, so be it. The fact that they live with their heads in the sand infuriates me. It keeps us from enjoying what could be wonderful occasions together, my son's birthday parties, THEIR birthday parties, Thanksgiving, etc.

    BUT......

    Then I realize that I do have a lot of "special occasions" with my family, where we are together only for love. We have a wondeful time, we are happy, and we love one another. This is one of the big reasons I choose not to "rock the boat" and try to pry them from their hell hole of a religion.

    My idea of God allows me to believe that anyone who loves him, and others is in his grace so to speak. When and if people are ready to come out, they will. In the meantime, if your relationship with your father is otherwise loving, I personally think you should let it be.

    Just my opinion, and best wishes to you whatever you decide.

  • Skeptic
    Skeptic
    So the question becomes my father. What do you do with somebody like this? The man is very loving and is a very good person, but he's very tied to his religion. He's in his late 70's and this is all he knows. All his friends are JWs. All his social activities are JW ones. It's what keeps him going. Take it away and you take away his reason to live.

    The Dubs don't make that great of demands of elderly Witnesses. If you don't see any real harm in him remaining a JW, leave him be.

    Richard

  • blackout
    blackout

    Id leave him be, at his age it is probably his only comfort, if you took it away he would feel he had wasted his whole life.

    I have the same delemma with my mother, she is in her 50's though, I just dont know what to do, I know she is miserable and has chronic depression, but I dont want to lose her, it would be so bad for her if I was DF. I dont want to be on her conscience.

  • happysunshine
    happysunshine

    Hello jws-

    I have some very simular aspects to my life at the moment. The dilema of dealing with witness family reminds me of what I heard a psychiatrist say once. He was treating a patient who was paranoid-schizophrenic. The patient told him that even if he was a paranoid-schizophrenic, that didn't prove that there wasn't a conspiracy against him. Who can argue with logic like that!

    I recently discussed exactly the same issue with one of my professors. He is a very clever guy, teaching a philosophy/religion class. He strongly believes such people will never change their minds at my prodding. He said he had some fundamental disagreements with his father about religion, but decided to avoid debating it- save the occasional good natured ribbing. While I can see the benefits of this course (peace, acceptence, etc), personaly, I have problems accepting this. I guess a part of me wonders where the purity is. It seems like a weak choice. Where's the shining champion of truth? If I settle for a 'murky' solution like that in something as fundemental as my family, how can I ever hope to find truth in my personal life? Perhaps I'm being dogmatic (I wonder where I got that from!). I also think of the witnesses not giving up on their conversion efforts, why should I? But perhaps thats where the problem started in the first place, with attitudes/approaches like that! I fear the 'soft' approach may be motivated by personal convinience, but perhaps if its motivated by love, then it is in fact the best answer. I have yet to resolve this debate- its a source of great irritation to me. Anyone have any input?

    On the technical side, I tend to stay away from the bible debates. The bible can be used like any other book rich with analogy and symbolism- essentialy anyway you choose. A real quagmire for trying to have an argument. Also, you could ask them "what would it take (or what would the WTS have to do) for you to leave?" I always wanted to ask that question but never did. What do you think jws?

  • acsot
    acsot

    Hi, I can relate to what you're saying. My mother is almost 81 and the Witnesses are basically her whole social structure. She's not unaware of what's going on in the organization (child abuse, nasty elders verbally ripping apart one of her close friends, also a senior citizen - real loving, huh?), but her "take" on the situation is that she's serving God and everyone will have to pay for their actions. She's not really die-hard in her convictions, I mean, she believes others who are good and sincere will be saved also, not just dubs. I think she's gradually come to this conclusion on her own as she ages and sees some of the stuff that doesn't make sense, and she still has fond memories of her previous religion. So at this point in her life her beliefs are not all black and white, but with her health being what it is, she doesn't get to the meetings as much as before so perhaps that is why she's been able to mellow some of the more radical dub reasonings. She told me the other day she misses getting to the meetings because she likes talking to the ones there and seeing what's happening, for example, has anyone had a baby, who's engaged, you know, social stuff. That's basically what the meetings are for her now, just a chance to get out of the house and see other people.

    Of course, she also wanted to take me out on my birthday last week, so that shows you how "mellow" she's become! I'm not pushing anything on her other than what she already knows/is aware of. I want her to live out her last few years in peace.

  • Navigator
    Navigator

    I can certainly empathise with your situation. I've been living in that same situation for about 40 years with my wife. We don't discuss religion. I'm very active in my Unity church and she is a full time pioneer who gave up trying to convert me years ago. She uses her religion as a crutch and I'm not at all sure how she would make it mentally without her crutch. It goes back to an unfortunate childhood. She is an intelligent, well educated woman who has made a choice to be blind to the "warts" on the face of that so called religion.

    Don't worry about your Dad. No one is going to be lost. God made us all perfect and that is the only way He/She can see us. The remembrance and realization of the wasted opportunities will no doubt be painful to him when he gets to the other side and realizes that he lived a lie. Be as loving as your conscience will allow you to be regarding the "religion" he holds so dear. Since you revere the bible, reread the story of the Prodigal Son. It tells us everything we need to know about God and how we will be treated when we finally come to our senses and decide to return home; however unworthy we might feel.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    jws,

    There comes a time to forget about religion and beliefs about God. They are carnal creations that have no validity or truth anyway. The finite mind can not grasp the Infinity of what the word "God" points to. Beliefs are not important.

    What is important is the time spent with your father and the love you both share. Be there for him and appreciate his warmth. Chances are he will be gone soon.

    JamesT

  • Victorian sky
    Victorian sky

    Dear jws, James T made a good point about making the time you spend with your Dad count. At his age it would devestate him if he knew that his life was built around a lie, (I'm inactive now but I was in for 14 years, reg. pioneered & so forth) I lost a decade of my life (my 20's) I would give anything to have that time back so I could do things differently but I can only use the time I have now (I'm 30) But I have time. Your Dad doesn't have decades to change his life into something of his own making. You and I do. It would break his heart. You must love him very much to be so torn up about it but I think the others are right about leaving him in peace. God is greater than all of us, more powerful than any false religion and he will undo any damage emotional, spiritual or otherwise done to your Dad. Just love him, treat him with the kindness he will never recieve from any jw. There is a perception in the borg that ex-jws are cold/unloving so prove them wrong. Your love in action will speak to your dad lounder than any sermon could. He may not know the truth about the 'truth' but he'll know without a doubt that his son loves him. Victorian sky

  • JustUs
    JustUs

    Hi jws,

    I have a son living with his mother in another city. This poor kid works two jobs, pioneers, and attends college part ime. When he first became aware that I no longer accept the teachings of JW's as gospel, he became very distressed. I backed off because his mother warned me that my son is at an age where he would feel obligated to obey the WT direction, and shun me if I make waves and become DF'd or DA'd.

    I have to admit though that I'm not entirely upset that he associates with the Witnesses. The organization for what it's worth, along with his mother and myself have given him a good moral base. He associates with people who have basically the same moral base, and for these reasons I've backed off.

    Think about this, Jesus had a great deal of compassion for the people who were misled in his day, and a great deal of contempt for the religious leaders. He never blamed the sheep...he felt pity for them. This is where my entire hope is for my son, and his mother. I leave the matter in Gods hands.

    One thing I do though is regularly compile articles from this site and others into folders that will be left to my son, should anything ever happen to me, that I believe someday he will be moved to examine, and perhaps then understand what I was trying to say all along. It's just a matter of time before this organization breaks apart because of internal dysfunctions. I truly believe this will happen, and hope I can be there to soften the blow my son will no doubt feel when it happens. Just some thoughts.

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