free-will in paradise?

by nowawake14 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • nowawake14

    What is your opinion? Do you think we would be perfect robots if there was a 'paradise?'

  • Finkelstein

    I never try to speculate on other people's imagination, particularly when it come to their ancient mythical gods coming to mankind's rescue.

    Sure it would nice that there no more sickness and death but in reality that too comes from fictional mythology, appealing as it might be.

    Therefore folding up ones arms waiting for that to happen is a redundant human folly in itself.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    In the bible "Paradise" was part of Sheol. However, if you are referring to the Millennium Reign, it is clear that sin and death will still be there because the sin nature of man is still present; even though its expression will be dramatically suppressed through righteous rule by King Jesus himself.

    Isaiah 65

    But be glad and rejoice forever
    in what I will create,
    for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
    and its people a joy.

    19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
    and take delight in my people;
    the sound of weeping and of crying
    will be heard in it no more.

    20 “Never again will there be in it
    an infant who lives but a few days,
    or an old man who does not live out his years;
    the one who dies at a hundred
    will be thought a mere child;

    the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
    will be considered accursed.

    But, for all the OT righteous and the NT believers, they will have glorified bodies with the sin nature removed. Their citizenship is New Jerusalem - heaven (with access to earth)

    I personally believe that giving up the free will to sin is part of the New Testament transaction offered by Jesus. That is why they are clothed with immortality. Eventually, all those living will be in this state after the final judgment at the end of the thousand years.

    This is the mainline historical Christian view.

  • waton

    free will or not, a way has to be found to daily remove millions of tons of biomass from the surface of paradise. With no more carnivores, and surely animals not having eternal life too, who will volunteer (using free will) to bury the carcasses that will not be degraded first?

    Keep the crap-less paradise clean, as seen in wt paradise pamphlets.

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    I always imagined it this way. People would choose to be kind and thoughtful. No one would hurt the earth because they didn't want to. Dead animals would be cleaned up by omnivores that didn't hunt but scavenged. Each one could contribute their own talents.

    The WT sees it this way.

    They are up above everyone and tell others what to do.

    The earthly ones go to meetings and make sure that all of the resurrected shave their beards and wear what everyone else is wearing. They study because there are "new" scrolls that the anointed (the ones that never got a chance to lord it over others while on earth) make sure the earthly ones excruciatingly go over point by point.

  • waton
    Dead animals would be cleaned up by omnivores dof p

    I would be ill at ease if pet pandas, lions, tigers, wolves hyenas would be omnivores. Dont cats eat occasional herbs even now?

    Will omnivores have free will too? chose between flora and fauna?

    I have yet to spot a wt illustration of omnivores cleaning up an elephant carcass.(or an outhouse) Omni might mean me and the mine.

  • zeb
    • As a jw now you have to wear what you are told in clothes and footwear.
    • bodily grooming facial hair
    • must never doubt the gb
    • report any infraction of rules by others to the elders
    • have no pursuit of any sport
    • have no pursuit of recreational hobby
    • not pursue any education beyond high-school. (and I recall when that was kept to a legal minimum.)
    • not buy a two door car because a 4 door is necessary to cart others around in for field service.
    • take blood but fractions of some one else blood is ok...?
    • and so on.....

    The wt seeks control over your life and operates on a basis that we all are clones of the urban American family and the religion is a one size fits all.

    In a new world the pursuit of power will not just go away..

    and the common language will succumb to gobbledygook as the meanings of words becomes ever more confused as it did out of the mouths of the elders and wt officials at the CARC.

    So groups of people separated by distance will develop their own 'dialect' as is indeed across the English speaking world today.

  • blondie

    No, what you see now in the WTS spiritual parasdise is what they say you will see in the future earthly paradise. Yes, what I want is to spend eternity with jws under WTS control!

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    The earthly ones go to meetings and make sure that all of the resurrected shave their beards and wear what everyone else is wearing.

    Funny! An interesting side note is that there is no resurrection during the millennium. The 1st Resurrection has already occurred by this time at various points starting at the Rapture and throughout the Great Tribulation as the Tribulation saints are martyred.

    But the rest of the dead are not resurrected until the thousand years have ended. The purpose of the second resurrection is strictly so that they can stand trial at the Great White Throne Judgment.

    Rev. 20 they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years..... This is the first resurrection.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power..........

    And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them....And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    Those resurrected in the 1st resurrected are judged vicariously by the work Jesus did at the Cross. Those resurrected in the 2nd resurrection, having rejected the work of Christ on their behalf, are then judged by their own works. It doesn't end well for those that end up at the GWT judgment.

    Amazingly, JW's are not looking forward to the 1st resurrection since that is reserved for OT faithful and church-age saints (annointed). They are banking on the 2nd resurrection. However, instead of finding panda bears in a garden, they must be judged by their own works since they have been deceived into rejecting the new covenant of Christ where Jesus offers to become a curse in their stead:

    Galatians 3 - O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ... has been...set forth? ....Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    Waton - Bears are omnivores. Hey, it's the New Order and if God tells them to one, they will.

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