Blackguard,
Forgive the cut and paste method, it's just what I do. As a disclaimer, I respect you and your views, and in a way I hope you're right. But I can't agree with you.
I think it's fair to say that baptism nullification is hypothetical at this point in time. No-one can state categorically that it works in the way it's theorized to. This is the context of this discussion, isn't it?
I think this is all fine and good, Blackguard -- except when I have I said that this isn't the context of the discussion? The reason I entered into the discussion so vigorously is because Maverick has been on several threads talking about this, and in one thread in particular he said that a person who had DA'd himself was now powerless, without options, and had made an inferior decision (it was "too bad" he DA'd). If BN is all hypothetical at this point in time, why come on so strong against someone who didn't choose it? Why not instead respect the decision made by the poster's son? That's all I'm saying, an I don't think it's such an awful thing to say.
What we do know is that D/Fment and D/A'n is a one-way street in regards to maintaining communication with friends and family within the gulags. BN at least holds the potential for civility.
Do you really think so? I wish I could agree, but I can't. Maverick even agrees that people who BN will be shunned, as I said in my last message and repeat now. And it seems somewhat obvious to me that the Witnesses who would remain friendly with people who nullified are likely the same Witnesses who already have friendly contact with the disassociated and disfellowshipped, the same Witnesses who, one way or another, are on their way out of the Organization anyway, or who stay in for convenience but don't take it seriously. Loyal dubs, however -- the ones we'd all like to reach and shake some sense into -- know what you have to be doing to be "good association," and nullifying your baptism sure ain't it.
In regards to lawsuits under the present D/F & D/A arrangement it's been my understanding that legally one can do little to nothing for the simple reason that the baptism is the means by which contractual agreement emerges and binds the individual to the terms implied or otherwise known in his relationship to the spiritual corporate tyrant.
And what I wrote is still absolutely correct: in disassociation you retain your legal rights as a citizen and can still sue for things that are illegal, like libel. The contractual agreement with the corporation never required you to give up that right, even while you were still in it.
BN, in theory, seems to exempt the individual from the contract.
Once you're disassociated, you're exempt from the contract too. The funny thing about BN is that it claims that the contract was never valid because you were duped into it. Which to me seems kind of strange, since elsewhere on this board Maverick has talked (directly to me, I think) about taking responsibility for choices made and moving on as adults. Claiming you were duped, tricked, and utterly manipulated is hardly taking personal responsibility, in my opinion. I suppose it happens, though, and I'm not necessarily unsympathetic to those who feel that way.
And it's just an opinion, certainly not one I'd foist on someone innocently posting about his or her exit from the Organization. Leaving that motherfucker is tough, and the important thing is to be out in a way that makes peace for you. Which is why I questioned a couple of remarks, somewhat arrogant in flavor, made by Maverick about his hypothetical alternative that even he's not sure will work.
Even maverick doesn't know positively how this will pan out. I recall him stating that he maintains communication with some of those to whom he sent a copy of his BN. This might suggest BN is working.
That's great for Maverick. I sincerely hope it works out for him. Me -- I personally don't want to maintain contact with Witnesses who'll hear that I'm DA'd. I'm through with that religion and people who loyally remain in it.
Dedalus
Edited by - dedalus on 15 February 2003 10:56:57
