Judge & Doctors conflict at release of Rapist

by Matty 23 Replies latest social current

  • cellomould

    Witch Child,

    Many other animal species are known to commit rape (the males of course). It is a reproductive strategy in many cases for males who cannot otherwise get a mate.

    It is indeed a sexual act for humans as well; I can't imagine the reason people try to deny it.

    Here is a good link to a balanced article about that:


    I found out recently that, in the past, my girlfriend was sexually accosted by a 'friend'. In fact, they worked together and had many mutual good friends. Somehow he had duped her into believing that it was mutual...and she wasn't able to tell anyone about it for a long time.

    I think that he showed no respect for her. Having met him (fortunately he survived the experience due to my ignorance of the situation), I think he is a coward and a prick. But I would make no argument against lopping his balls off...might do him some good.

    I think the statistics, by the way, don't reflect accurately enough the disparity between women who know their sexual abuser and women who are sexually abused by strangers. I'd say that most cases go unreported...because it is someone they know and they feel guilty to tell.


  • Seven

    Hi Cello,

    It is indeed a sexual act for humans as well; I can't imagine the reason people try to deny it.

    I don't see anyone trying to deny it. Sex is a motivator, but not always. Rape is a sexual behavior done primarily to satisfy nonsexual desires. Rob Hall, Rape in America

    Psychologists who work with sex offenders see several kinds of offenders, including those for whom rape is a desire to dominate or control, those for whom it is an extension of anger, and those who seem to have been motivated by sex. Against Our Will-Susan Brown-Miller

    Rape viewed as an evolved "form of male reproductive behavior-a natural act." talked about in the article you linked to, failed to include the rapist, be it man or mosquito who's m.o. is oral and anal sex, child rape etc. I fail to see where reproductive urges apply here.

    I don't buy the male being too unattractive and undesirable as an excuse for forced sex.

    Studies of convicted rapists, serial rapists, and sex killers have found the majority to be of average or above average intelligence, obtained the equivalent of a high school diploma or better, married at least once, and an income well above the poverty level.(6)

    The majority of convicted sex offenders are young men who cut across all racial, economic, and social lines. While there is no one profile, they do have some things in common. Generally, they're assertive and aggressive and have problems controlling their anger and their impulses. They also have what psychologists call criminal thinking patterns and thinking errors. Brown-Miller


    (1) (U.S. Department of Justice, Preventing Violence Against Women. Washington, D.C.; June 1995; 13-15.)
    (2) (U.S. Department of Justice, Violence Against Women: Estimates from the Redesigned Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report. August 1995; 1.)
    (3) (The Commonwealth Fund, Commission on Women's Health, Violence Against Women in the United States: A Comprehensive Background Paper. November 1995; 43.)
    (4) (U.S. Department of Justice, Preventing Violence Against Women. Washington, D.C.; June 1995; 14, 77, 78.)
    (5) (Groth, Nicholas A. Men Who Rape, the Psychology of the Offender. New York: Plenum Press; 1979; 101.)
    (6) (Hall, Rob. Rape in America. ABC-CLIO, Inc., 1995; 7-9, 74, 75.)

    Patterns of Behavior in Adolescent Rape by Vinogradov et al. in the American Journal of Orthopsychiatry 58(2) April 1988 pp 179-87:

    71% of the rapists were under the influence of drugs (inc. alcohol). 15% reported taking drugs less than 15 minutes prior to the rape. 21% premeditated the rape. 27% committed the rape while committing another crime. 16% were impulsive/spontaneous, "the victim was simply an easy available 'innocent bystander'". 7% were committed after an argument with the victim. 6% after sexual foreplay with the victim.

    89% of the rapists described the victims as not being provocative, "The victims did not verbally provoke nor were sexually attractive to the attacker".

    I have a lot of respect for you Cello, for sticking by your girlfriend. You're a good man. If you ever feel the need to discuss things relating to being involved with a survivor of sexual assault with others like yourself, I know of a few places for you to check out. Let me know.


  • cellomould

    Hi Seven,

    Thanks for your reply...the statistics are surprising indeed! I have been enlightened.

    By the way, yes, it did happen 'on my watch'. I refrained from saying so directly, but I see you figured it out. At first, I was told it was mutual. I didn't buy it. I was angry off and on...of course I felt hurt too.

    I would love to chat more with you about it (or just theoretically about the subject)...I will have to be discreet though, as most of my posting is from my girlfriend's computer.

    Thanks again for your comments

    Happy Valentine's Day...movie night here for us...and I must go because my gal is wearing some nighties!


  • Seven


    Legal issues delay state's release of sex predator
    Contra Costa felon must wait a year after his hospitalization

    Charlie Goodyear, Chronicle Staff Writer <mailto: [email protected]> Saturday, February 15, 2003

    A sex predator seeking to be released from a state mental hospital to Contra Costa under California's sexually violent predator law won't be able to win his freedom until May, prosecutors said Friday.

    Although a judge on Jan. 24 granted Cary Verse's request for release from Atascadero State Hospital, Verse, 32, can't walk free until at least May 7 -- a year after he was committed again to the hospital.

    At a hearing Friday before Contra Costa Superior Court Judge John Minney, prosecutor Brian Haynes said state law prohibits freeing sex offenders from treatment until a year has passed since they last sought release into the public.

    Meanwhile, state officials charged with finding housing for Verse after he is released said Friday they had come up empty. Lawyers will be back in court in three weeks to discuss the status of the case.

    "I'd be very surprised if he was released at the next date either," Haynes said following Friday's hearing in Martinez.

    Verse, who is being kept at Atascadero and did not appear in court Friday, has a history of sexual violence that dates back to his teen years. His most recent criminal offense was in 1992 -- the sexual assault of a man at a homeless shelter in the Richmond area.

    Verse was paroled for that crime in 1998 and sent to Atascadero, where by Haynes' admission he has been a "star pupil," convincing even a doctor who once testified against him that he is ready for release.

    A chemical castration device has been implanted in Verse's arm and he will be monitored by a global positioning system while living in public.

    But Haynes has argued Verse is still conflicted about his homosexual orientation and the Jehovah's Witness faith that he has embraced. Verse has asked to live in the Martinez area to be closer to a Jehovah's Witness church. Prosecutors are fighting his bid for freedom.

    Verse's lawyer, Contra Costa Deputy Public Defender Ron Boyer, said Friday that efforts to find suitable living arrangements for his client had been "minimal" at best. Boyer said state officials had not been in contact with Verse following last month's court order to set him free.

    Deputy Attorney General Susan King told the court that under an agreement with county officials and the state Department of Mental Health, the county is not obligated to find housing for Verse. Boyer countered that state law requires the county to do so.

    Minney agreed Friday to delay ruling on the numerous legal issues raised in the case, giving lawyers time to file motions to be heard March 7.

    E-mail Charlie Goodyear at

    [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]> .
  • Seven


    When someone is raped or abused, family members, partners, and friends are also victimized.

    You won't always know what to say, but just knowing you will listen with an open mind can make all the difference. Every friend who takes the time out to listen and care deserves a world of thanks.-Tori Amos

    I look forward to continuing this discussion once the new board goes up. Not everyone feels comfortable discussing these issues and I'd appreciate having someone to talk about it with too. A few professionals who post here, Scully and Lady Lee, are great sources of information and support and I'm sure they'd steer you in the right direction too . I hope you had a good Valentine's Day with your lady.


  • Seven

    The Honorable Judge John Minney is out of his funking mind, imo.

    I would like to retract that idiotic statement questioning Judge Minney's competency. It was based on emotion rather than fact. I've spent the past week reading up on his background and the rulings he's handed down in several high profile cases. Considering his direct involvement in the community with projects to keep kids safe I'm inclined to think that he'll do all he can to see that twisted dub Cary Verse is released into the community ***shudder*** under a proven treatment provider.

  • Matty

    Thank you Seven for looking into this case and the Judge in more detail - don't beat yourself over it though, it was a perfectly natural reaction to the situation as originally presented and reflected my initial view as well as others.

  • Seven

    Matty, Look for Brother Verse's lawyers to be back in court on the 7th of March. AP writer Kim Curtis mentioned him yesterday in a Chronicle piece on molester, Brian DeVries describing the program. She said, The controversial treatment program requires offenders to work their way through four phases. They get recommitted every two years until mental health evaluators decide they're ready for the fifth phase, community release. No one has gone through the program and graduated into supervised release. In Contra Costa County, officials also are having trouble finding a treatment provider for Cary Verse, a 32-year-old convicted rapist who also was granted his petition for community release. Lawyers in that case are expected back in court next month.

  • cellomould

    I had a chat with a friend about this subject recently...

    It seems that (although I don't know how solid the evidence) men who are castrated will live longer. It is definitely true that aggression and impulse will be diminished greatly.

    This guy should voluntarily obtain surgical castration.


  • Seven


    More re: castration and sex offenders. The editor's names along with their credentials can be found at http://echo.forensicpanel.com/editorial_board/ Also by visiting the department of corrections website of your state, you should be able to find current recidivism stats for sex offenders along with research proposal information.

    Castration and Sex Offenders: Back to the Future
    Volume 1, Issue 1 -- Published: Friday, Nov 1, 1996 -- Last Updated: Monday, Mar 11, 2002

    Email to a colleague Comment on article Bookmark article Copyright & reprint info

    Sex offenders, especially those with an egregious history of recidivism, will almost certainly continue their behavior, unless their urge to engage in it is effectively curtailed. One such approach, castration, has been summarily dismissed in America for many years. But with the recent passage of legislation in California mandating chemical castration for repeat sex offenders, several other states are also exploring similar initiatives. Most research to date has reviewed not chemical, but surgical castration (i.e. removal of the testes and replacement with prostheses). Since the late 1920s Denmark has studied the effects of surgical castration in hundreds of its most grievous sex offenders who volunteered for the procedure. The program also included trained, committed psychotherapy and follow-up monitoring for over forty years. A climate of doctor-patient confidentiality at Herstedvester, the host institution, facilitated patient disclosure. The result: recidivism rates below 5%, duplicating results in similar castrated populations in Norway, Switzerland, Germany and Iceland. Yet many of the castrated maintained an adaptive sex life; the treatment curtails drive, not the capacity for sex. In contrast, a non-castrated Danish group of offenders showed a recidivism rate of approximately 50%. Chemical castration with Medroxyprogesterone Acetate (which lowers circulating testosterone), has been examined in the United States and Canada in a number of studies of sex offenders. As in earlier European hormonal research, sex offenders have shown improved recidivism rates. Furthermore, studies have consistently shown its side effects to be even less frequent and disabling than those of many traditional behavioral medications. Thus, chemical castration offers an alternative to surgical castration that is perhaps not as biologically effective but is more palatable to those who have apocalyptic visions of "A Clockwork Orange." California's castration legislation omitted the specialized counseling that has traditionally accompanied such programs. States must enhance such castration legislation by providing for pilot counseling programs targeted at high-risk offenders. There is a very specific place for castration—when selectively and thoughtfully applied.
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    Additional articles worth the read re: effectiveness of treatment programs.


    Anderson, R., Gibeau, D., & D'Amora, D. (1995). The sex offender treatment rating scale: Initial reliability data. Sexual Abuse: Journal of Research & Treatment, 7, (3): 21-227.

    Discusses developed rating scale as a potential proces s and outcome measure for cognitive/behavioral sex offender treatment.

    Beutler, L., Hinton, R., Crago, M., & Collier, S. (1995). Evaluation of "fixed propensity" to commit sexual offenses: A preliminary report. Criminal Justice & behavior, 22, (3) : 284-294.

    Discusses possible measures for predicting l ikelihood of future offense and the nature of offense.

    Brody, Authur; Green, Richard. (1994). Washington State's Unscientific Approach to the Problem of Repeat Sec offenders. Bulletin of the American Academy of Psychiatry & the Law, 22, (3), 343.

    Addresses the Sexual Predator Act.

    Brooks, Alexander. (1994). The Civil Commitment of Pathological Violent Sex Offenders. Administration & Policy in Mental Health, 21, (5), 417.

    Explores the Sexually Violent Predator Statute.

    Byrne, J., Taxman, F. (1994) Crime control policy and community corrections practice: Assessing the impact of gender, Race, and Class. Evaluation and program Planning, 17, (2), 227-233.

    Review of current evaluation research on use of incarceration for sex offenders (among others).

    Ellsworth, Thomas; Helle, Karin. (1994). Older Offenders on Probation. Federal Probation, 58, (4), 43.

    Data about offenders aged >55 years who are on probation.

    Fisher, D. & Thorton, D. (1993) Assessing risk of re-offending in sexual offenders. Journal of Mental Health, 2, (2), 105-117.

    Examines risk of repeat offenses by convicted sex offenders.

    Frohmann, L. & Mertz, E. (1994) Legal reform and social construction: Violence, Gender, and the law. Law & Social Inquiry, 19, (4), 829-851.

    Suggests attentiveness to victim's needs and necessity for legal reform.

    Furby, L., Weinrott, M.R., & Blackshaw, L. (1989). Sex offender recidivism: A review. Psychological Bulletin, 105, (1), 3-30.

    This paper reviews the literature on programs for sex offenders and whether they "really work," in the sense of significantly reducing the recidivism rates. It concludes that there is no evidence supporting the claim that clinical treatment reduces these rates on sex offenses.

    Gerber, Paul. (1995). Commentary on Counter - Transference in Working With Sex Offenders: The Issue of Sexual Attraction. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 4, (1), 117.

    Speaks of the role therapists play in helping sex offenders.

    Gratzer. T. & Bradford. J. (1995) Offender and offense characteristics of sexual sadists: A comparative study. Journal of Forensic Sciences, 40, (3), 450-455.

    Examines characteristics of sexual sadist and sexual offenders in general.

    Groth, A.N., Longo, R.E., & McFaelind, J.B. (1982). Undetected recidivism among rapists and child molesters. crime and Delinquency, 28, (3), 450-458.

    Results of a questionnaire given to sex offenders indicate that the majority of them have been convicted more than once for a sexual assault. On average they admitted to having committed 2-5 times as many sex crimes for which they were not apprehended.

    Hall, G.C. (1988). Criminal behavior as a function of clinical and actuarial variables in a sexual offender population. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 56, (5), 773-775.

    The ability of clinical and actuarial variables to predict criminal behavior was investigated in a sample of 342 sexual offenders. Discriminant analyses suggested that linear combination of actuarial variables was significantly predictive of sexual reoffense against adults and of nonsexual violent and nonviolent reoffending.

    Hubson, W., Boland, C., & Jamieson, D. (1985). Dangerous sexual offenders. Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 92, (2), 104-119.

    Describes characteristics of dangerous sexual offenders, including rapists and child molesters. Factors indicate an unfavorable prognosis. Thus, a need for increased externally imposed control of sexual offenders are noted.

    Hagan, M,. King, R,. Patros, R. (1994). The efficacy of a serious sex offenders treatment program for adolescent rapists. International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology, 38, (2), 141-150.

    Discusses results of study on adolescent sex offenders in juvenile correctional facilities.

    Hall, Gordon. (1995). Sexual Offender Recidivism Revisited: A Meta-Analysis of Recent Treatment Studies. Journal of Consulting & Clinical Psychology, 63, (5), 802.

    A study that looks at the effectiveness of treatment programs for sex offenders.

    Happel, Richard; Auffrey, Joseph. (1995). Sex Offender Assessment: Interrupting The Dance of Denial. American Journal of Forensic Psychology, 13, (2), 5.

    Discuss the dance of denial that sex offenders exhibit.

    Hudson, S.M.: Marshall, W, L.; Wales, D,; McDonald, E. (1993). Emotional Recognition Skills of Sex Offenders. Annals of Sex Research, 6, (3). 199.

    Study looking at the emotional states of sex offenders.

    Kearns, B. (1995) Self-reflection in work with sex offenders: A process not just for therapists. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 4, (1), 107-110.

    Deals with reactions to treatment of sexual abuse offenders.

    MaChovec, F. (1994) A systematic approach to sex offender therapy: Diagnosis, treatment, risk assessment. Psychotherapy in Private Practice, 13, (2), 93-108.

    Presents factor profile to assess treatment need and risk of re-offending.

    Marshall, W.L.; Barbaree, H.E.; Fernandez. Y.M. (1995). Some Aspects of Social Competence in Sexual Offenders. Sexual Abuse: Journal of Research & Treatment, 7, (2) 113.

    A study that looks at personality characteristics of sex offenders.

    Pallone, Nathaniel. (1991). The American Bar Association and Legislatively Mandated Treatment of Offender Rehabilitation. Journal of Offender Rehabilitation, 17, (1-2), 105.

    Discusses the "criminal sexual psychopath" and what should be done with a person who falls under this category.

    Tontodonato, P. & Erez, E. (1994) Crime, Punishment, and victim distress. International Review of Victimology, 3, (1-2), 33-55.

    Examines role of criminal justice experience in victim distress level.

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