Jesus Died For........

by bjc2012 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Carmel

    What many overlook is that the "seed" of Abraham also includes the linnage that gave rise to the "Prophet of Paran" (Mohammed and the twelve princes, Imams) and to the linnage of kings of Persia, the Sasaniyan dynasty.


  • logical

    Carmel, Jah did promise a great nation through Ishmael, but the seed was to come through Isaac

  • Francois

    Twaddle. Utter twaddle.

    The people of this planet continue to suffer from the influence of primitive concepts of God. The gods who go on a rampage in the storm; who shake the earth in their wrath and strike down men in their anger; who inflict their judgments of displeasure in times of famine and flood--these are the gods of primitive religion; they are not the God who lives in and rules the universes. Such concepts are a relic of the times when men supposed that the universe was under the guidance and domination of the whims of such imaginary gods. But we are beginning to realize that we live in a realm of comparative law and order as far as concerns the administration of the universes.

    The barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive, a philosophy unworthy of an enlightened age of science and truth. Such beliefs are utterly repulsive to the celestial beings and the divine rulers who serve and reign in the universes. It is an affront to God to believe, hold, or teach that innocent blood must be shed in order to win his favor or to divert the fictitious divine wrath.

    The Hebrews believed that "without the shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin." They had not found deliverance from the old and pagan idea that the Gods could not be appeased except by the sight of blood, though Moses did make a distinct advance when he forbade human sacrifices and substituted therefor, in the primitive minds of his childlike Bedouin followers, the ceremonial sacrifice of animals.

    The bestowal of a Paradise Son of God on our world was inherent in the situation of closing a planetary age; it was inescapable, and it was not made necessary for the purpose of winning the favor of God. This bestowal also happened to be the final personal act of a Creator Son in the long adventure of earning the sovereignty of his universe. What a travesty upon the infinite character of God! this teaching that his fatherly heart in all its austere coldness and hardness was so untouched by the misfortunes and sorrows of his creatures that his tender mercies were not forthcoming until he saw his blameless Son bleeding and dying upon the cross of Calvary!

    Jesus didn't die for ME. Or you. Throw down that crutch you're propping yourselves up on and get a real concept of the real nature and character of God. And then get off your knees and stand upright to claim your status as a full-fledged son or daughter of God in your own right. "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God."


  • pomegranate

    What if your wrong? :)

  • Francois

    My Dear Pom:

    I’m not wrong. Far from it. The fear of the Lord may be the beginning of wisdom, my friend, but it is not the end.

    For a long time there will live on earth timid, fearful, and hesitant individuals who will prefer to secure their religious consolations through the old religions of fear – like Jehovah’s Witnesses, and in so casting their lot with these religions of authority, they compromise the sovereignty of personality, debase the dignity of self-respect, and utterly surrender the right to participate in that most thrilling and inspiring of all possible human experiences: the personal quest for truth, the exhilaration of facing the perils of intellectual discovery, the determination to explore the realities of personal religious experience, the supreme satisfaction of experiencing the personal triumph of the actual realization of the victory of spiritual faith over intellectual doubt as it is honestly won in the supreme adventure of all human existence--man seeking God, for himself and as himself, and finding him.

    While the religion of authority may impart a present feeling of settled security, you pay for such a transient satisfaction the price of the loss of your spiritual freedom and religious liberty. Our Father does not require as the price of entering the kingdom of heaven that you should force yourself to subscribe to a belief in things which are spiritually repugnant, unholy, and untruthful. It is not required of you that your own sense of mercy, justice, and truth should be outraged by submission to an outworn system of religious forms and dogmatic teachings. The religion of the spirit leaves you forever free to follow the truth wherever the leadings of the spirit may take you. And who can judge--perhaps this spirit may have something to impart to you that others have refused to hear?

    What if I’m wrong? I’m not wrong. I’ve entered that “kingdom of heaven” that is within me, and have listened to Jesus’ often repeated injunction “fear not.” Having started out on the way of life, having accepted this assignment and received the admonition to advance, I do not fear the dangers of human forgetfulness and mortal inconstancy, nor am I troubled with doubts of failure or by perplexing confusion, nor do I falter and question my status and standing as a child of God, for at every crossroad in the forward struggle, the Spirit of Truth has always spoken, saying, "This is the way." It has never failed me, Pom, and it won’t fail you either if you will only decide finally to throw off that religion of authority and fear and begin your own attempt to become creature perfect as your father in heaven is spirit perfect.


  • pomegranate


    You are correct. You are not wrong. In your own mind.

    How's it feel to be "like God?"


  • Francois

    It feels pretty good, actually.

    But, you know, you have to have a minimum level of intelligence in order to comprehend what's being said to you.

    If your maximum communication ability is illustrated by such phrases as "What if your wrong," then there's not much hope for you. Don't you know the difference between "your" and "you're"? Apparently not.

    It's my fault though, Pommy. I keep forgetting that we have been instructed not to cast our pearls before swine.

    Done with this thread. Bye.


  • pomegranate

    You sound exactly like Jehovah's Witnesses! ;)

  • ghost

    We have all been created to have a relationship with God - the kind of relationship that Abraham enjoyed (e.g: talking to God like a man talks to his friend) - a relationship that is similar to the relationship your kids would have with you.

    However, this relationship isn't automatic because our sin, and our sinful nature gets in the way.

    The things we've done to hurt someone, the dark, violent, perverse thoughts that we have... those things get in the way of a relationship with God.

    Nothing we can do can take account for our sins and our sinful nature.

    And why should we take our sins and our sinful nature into account..? Not to appease and curry favour with God, but to maintain a good relationship with God.

    Sure there was the rules and regulations listed in the book of the Law and sacrifices - however, they weren't effective - these things only dealt with the "outside of the dish", God is also interested in the inside.

    And so that's why God created Jesus - a reflection of God's love, power, and righteousness in a way we can understand.

    And that's why Jesus had to die - to take our sin and our sinful nature out of the way, so that we can be free to have a relationship with God.


    What if we sin after accepting Jesus Christ, repenting, and surrendering to God?

    Sin is to be avoided and accounted for with God - because they get in the way between us and God...

    When you hurt your spouse, that gets in the way between your relationship with him/her right?

    We're still in the relationship with God, however - unless we forget about Him, and steal back our life, our priorities from Him.

    That means that we have to confess that we've done wrong by Him, and commit to avoid doing it again.


    So, in closing - Jesus died, not to appease the angry gods, but to take away the things that get between a loving God.

    And having a relationship with this loving God, is why we were created, and what we live for.

    It's not about merely being cleansed from sin, nor to make the standard for Jesus' (temporary) kingdom on Earth, nor just to guarantee a place in a perfect afterlife.


    My apologies for not using appropriate terminolgy...

    I'm merely a curious non-denominational Christian who got door-knocked one morning by a Jehovah's Witness and his young padawan learner - and who decided to return the favour the best way I know how: on the web.

    I hope y'all don't mind.

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