Being On Welfare But StillPioneering

by minimus 19 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  minimus

  How
• 

  bay64me

  Easy, I know lots that did it.

  I even knew some that claimed disability and tramped the streets 70 hours per month!

  When the rules aren't written, they make up their own.
• 

  crownboy

  I know a couple of (able-bodied) sisters in my congregation who fall under that category. For folks who claim to be seperate from the world, they sure have no hang ups when it comes to using the services that the world has when it is convienient for them.

  IIRC, there is a topic in the "Reasoning From the Scriptures" book that addresses the fact that JW's don't do anything to give back to the community in charitable ways. Besides the BS about them being a service by doing the preaching work and not commiting crimes, they also said that by paying taxes JW's helped in the up keep of the community by helping to pay for government services, etc. I guess the welfare folks (who could work) can't even claim that much.
• 

  Mum

  So, the next time a JW comes to your door, besides asking him or her or them about protecting pedophiles, why not ask what they do for a living. Then tell them you don't have time to listen to their drivel because you have to work for a living and, besides that, you and others like you are all the protection their children have from abusers and pedophiles in their ranks.

  I would advise giving 'em hell, but they have already chosen that state for themselves.
• 

  home_and_dry

  There was this one reg pioneer in my old cong who worked part time and pioneered. She lived in a rented flat and was quite happy to claim housing benefit and council tax benefit which added up to around 40 a week. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought welfare and benefits were there to help support those who couldn't support themselves. There is nothing stopping these pioneers getting a full time job and paying their own way. It used to bug the hell out me. Still does, come to think about it.

  Also, I remember one guy who applied to be a reg pioneer and was unemployed. He was living totally on the state, and was accepted as a pioneer and would still go and 'sign on' once a fortnight, which includes signing a declaration each time saying that you are actively seeking work. Seems a bit suss to me.
• 

  Dizzy Cat

  Ahhh yes, the benefit scams. I too know a few that used to do this in the UK & still do. Often claiming to be mentally ill & claiming disability premium (if that's what it's called now) + housing benefit & still able to hobble around from door to door, God-bothering.

  It is wrong in my opinion. If you can work in the field and attend regular meetings + participate, then surely you can at the very least work part time and contribute to the society you are leaching off ?

  I know there are genuine cases, always, but few in the active ranks of "the truth".

  Of course there is always the option of shopping a JW to the local authorities who is falsely claiming benefit while "working". You would probably be doing them a favour, a lesson in taking full responsibility for their own life, something that being a JW robs them of.
• 

  blondie

  Here is an article from 20 years ago on welfare and JWs. Notice how the WTS speaks out of both sides of their mouth. What flaws in logic are here and what else is grist for the mill? (pardon the length, but all has to be seen to be believed.)

  April 1, 1983 Watchtower page 8

  The Uses and Abuses of Welfare

  About 3,000 years ago two widows named Naomi and Ruth moved into the town of Bethlehem in Judah. They were destitute, but they did not starve. Why not? Because the law of that land made special provision for the sustenance of the poor, especially for widows and orphans.Deuteronomy 26:12, 13.

  In the days of the Christian apostles, the poor were often assisted through the Christian congregation. For example, the apostle Paul wrote the elder Timothy a letter that included instructions to give a regular allowance to elderly widows who had no family to look after them.1 Timothy 5:3-16.

  Today, that ancient Law of Israel and the letter the apostle Paul wrote to Timothy are both part of the Holy Bible. Hence, the Bible encourages the principle of giving help to the needy. In fact, Christians in a position to do so are obligated to help their poor brothers.1 John 3:17.

  What, though, when the state has programs for financially assisting its citizens? A Christian can cooperate with this. All Christians are obliged to pay "to him who calls for the tax, the tax; to him who calls for the tribute, the tribute." (Romans 13:7) This would include all the taxes that are earmarked to be used for state benefits.By the same token, it is proper to accept any of these benefits to which we are legally

  entitled because of present circumstances. The apostle Paul said that governments are "Gods minister to you for your good." (Romans 13:4) So any grants, any help in the way of pension plans or medical insurance, even public assistance because of poverty, can all be properly accepted by a Christian who honestly qualifies. However, problems may arise.A Conscientious Decision

  Consider the situation of a young man who has chosen a career as a full-time preacher. Since this is unpaid, voluntary work, he takes a part-time job to support himself. It may happen that because the only available part-time employment gives him an income below a certain figure, he qualifies for government benefits. Should he apply for them?

  Well, he is not avoiding work. He is making an effort to support himself in an honorable way. As long as the authorities fully understand his situation and agree that he qualifies, there may be no reason for his refusing to accept any supplementary benefits that are available

  . It is not shameful to accept such assistance. In the United States, even some who work in the military receive it. (BUT THE ARE WORKING FULLTIME)

  However, in some localities people are sensitive on the subject of government assistance. In such places a situation like this could offend the local community. Hence, the Christian will want to give careful thought to the situation.

  Remember the apostle Paul. While he was in Corinth and in Thessalonica, he refused financial help from the congregations, even though he had a right to ask for it. Why? To avoid causing problems for his fellow Christians there. (2 Corinthians 11:9; 2 Thessalonians 3:8, 9) However, in other places he evidently did accept help.1 Corinthians 9:6, 9.

  Other situations that some have taken offense at involve women who do not have husbands to help them rear their children.

  Should they go out to work or should they seek government benefits?

  Surely, this is up to the individual woman to decide. After all, it is her children who are involved. In one case, a mother may feel fully justified in taking advantage of government financial assistance that enables her to be with her young children all the time.

  (NOT SINCE W-2 HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED) Another, with school-age children, may feel it would be unwise for her not to be home when they return from school each day.

  On the other hand, another mother may feel justified in taking a job and leaving her children in someone elses care during the day. (WHICH IS BAD SINCE THE FIRST SISTER CHOSE THE GOOD PORTION TO BE WITH HER YOUNG CHILDREN ALL THE TIME AT THE GOVERNMENTS EXPENSE)

  Each situation is different, and no one should criticize another for the course she decides to take. Running a home and rearing children are weighty and time-consuming responsibilities, especially for a lone woman. Such single-parent families were viewed as needing special help in the days of the Israelites. Today, each woman should weigh her own financial situation and other circumstances and decide how to handle the situation.Deuteronomy 24:19-21; James 1:27.

  But sometimes people make decisions that are clearly wrong.

  The Temptations of State AssistanceFor example, in some lands, when a man loses his job, his unemployment compensation can be as high as 80 percent of what he was earning at work. A man receiving such benefits may wonder, What is the point of looking for another job? A Christian may even see advantages in not getting work. He does not have to listen to bad language and can avoid the bad associations that are often a problem in secular work.

  Is such reasoning correct? Not really. First, it overlooks the fact that unemployment assistance is usually paid on the understanding that a man is looking for work. If he is not, then deceit may be involved. Then again, money for such benefits comes from other peoples taxes. In other words, other people are working to support his family. Is this a situation an able-bodied Christian would be happy with?Matthew 7:12.

  When Paul wrote to the congregation in Thessalonica, he spoke of some who were not working and said: "If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10) This was wise counsel. Man gets satisfaction from work. (Ecclesiastes 2:24) Failure to keep busy in productive work can have a bad effect on him. It can lead to frustration or even crime. "The one showing himself slack in his workhe is a brother to the one causing ruin."Proverbs 18:9.

  True, at times when work is not available a man may be forced to rely on state benefits. But when work is available that one could reasonably accept, Pauls counsel holds true: "Make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we ordered you; so that you may be walking decently as regards people outside."1 Thessalonians 4:11, 12.But could not a Christian receiving government assistance instead of having a full-time job engage in more Christian activity? Perhaps so. But what effect could this have on others? Paul associates "work with your hands" with "walking decently as regards people outside." Those who avoid work are not respected. Their bad reputation is likely to counteract any good they accomplish in other ways.1 Timothy 3:7.

  The lure of available state financial assistance can lead to other problems. Not long ago a man immigrated to a country with such benefits and applied for unemployment assistance. In his application he concealed the fact that he owned property in his home countrya fact that would have made him ineligible for benefits. Hence, he got money from the state by concealing the truth.

  Deception may be practiced in many ways. To claim financial assistance a wife may tell the authorities that her husband has deserted her. But the husband may still be at home with her. A couple may get a divorcebut keep on living togetherin order to get more benefits. Single women have been known to have children illegitimately in order to get increased help. Or it may be that a person is qualified to receive certain benefits, but the situation may change. He may get a job, for example. But by failing to report the change, he continues to draw financial help from the state.

  These are typical abuses of the welfare system. By concealing facts, telling outright lies or in some other way violating Christian principles, it is sometimes possible to deceive the authorities and get extra money. But the Bible warns: "The devious person is a detestable thing to Jehovah, but His intimacy is with the upright ones." It also states: "The getting of treasures by a false tongue is an exhalation driven away, in the case of those seeking death." (Proverbs 3:32; 21:6) No Christian would want to be detestable in Jehovahs eyes, just for financial gain.

  But another danger in this matter has to be guarded against.Welfare Oriented

  People who know that state benefits are available can be irresponsible. They can come to rely on the state to shoulder responsibilities that the Bible says should be handled by individuals. In some cases they grew up under circumstances where such thinking prevailed. Perhaps several generations have been raised on public assistance, and it is difficult for them to imagine any other way of life.

  However, a states arrangements to give financial help do not relieve a Christian of his God-given responsibilities. Paul said: "If anyone does not provide for . . . those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith." (1 Timothy 5:8) If, in some lands, the state helps the head of a household a little to care for his familyby means of pensions for the elderly, family allowances and similar provisionshe can be grateful for the provision. But caring for his family is still his responsibility.

  Similarly, the apostle John said that it is a Christians responsibility to help his poorer brothers. (1 John 3:17) True, in some lands the state may make some material provision for the poor. But the Christian obligation to help is still there. A Christian should continue to be alert to give material and spiritual aid to those who are truly in need.

  Yes, such governmental arrangements to provide financial benefits are a humane provision of "Caesar." If they did not exist, Christian congregations would probably have to do far more in this regard than they do at present. Nevertheless, a Christian should not abuse the provisions. He should not lie, conceal the truth or in any other way compromise Christian standards. And he should not rely on the state to care for his God-given responsibilities.

  In his letter to the Hebrews, the apostle Paul said: "Let your manner of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For [Jehovah] has said: I will by no means leave you nor by any means forsake you." (Hebrews 13:5) He also encouraged the Corinthians to do "all things for Gods glory."1 Corinthians 10:31.

  What fine principles are stressed there! Avoid the love of money. Rely on Jehovah for all things, while accepting from the state those benefits to which we may be lawfully entitled. In everything we do, consider the effect on Gods name. If we keep these three principles well in mind, we will be helped to have a right view of welfare.*** w73 5/15 316-8 Will You Make the Effort to Be Honest? ***Honesty requires effort also in connection with what Caesar or the secular government provides for the people. Some countries make available government-sponsored social services, which include financial aid to those with low income or who are unemployed. In the United States this is known as public or social welfare.

  This provision has given rise to much dishonesty. Officials have expressed concern at the ease with which welfare money may be obtained with minimal inquiry being made as to the recipients eligibility. A United States senator in a speech before the Senate on March 14, 1972, spoke of "literally thousands of people all around the country who should not, under any reasonable interpretation, be eligible for benefits, or whose benefits should be substantially less than they are receiving." A United States Department of Health, Education and Welfare survey revealed that, of 500,000 recipients, 4.9 percent were ineligible for any payment, and over 7.9 percent received overpayments.

  To be honest when faced with the temptation to obtain what appears to be easy money can require determined effort in a variety of circumstances. For instance, a person may qualify to receive welfare payments for a while but then undergo a change of status, for example, due to marriage, becoming employed or receiving a salary increase. The law may specify that he should now receive benefits at a lower rate or none at all. Will he make the effort to be honest and notify the administration of his changed status?

  Some refrain from doing so, reasoning that as long as the government does not look into the matter it is all right. But even if a person does inform them, he may continue to receive money at the same rate as before due to inefficiency or indifference on the part of the office workers.

  What would you do if you found yourself in that situation? Would you accept the money, reasoning that someone elses mistake or negligence entitles you to it? Or would you refuse to accept that to which you are not entitled by law? The Bible can help you to make the right decision. How so?

  For one thing the Bible reveals that "the eyes of Jehovah are in every place, keeping watch upon the bad ones and the good ones." He sees everything we do, and this in itself should serve as a strong incentive to conduct ourselves honestly at all times.Prov. 15:3; compare Psalm 139:1-12.

  Then, too, the word of God forthrightly condemns deception and thievery. At Ephesians 4:25, we read: "Wherefore, now that you have put away falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor." Falsehood, of course, includes direct lying. But what about voluntarily withholding information from Caesar that he has a right to know? Is that any less a form of falsehood?

  The Bibles command is clear: "Let the stealer steal no more." A Christian has no desire to come into possession of something to which he has no right, even if that may be made easy through someone elses error or oversight. Instead, a follower of Christ is to "do hard work, doing with his hands what is good work."Eph. 4:28.

  Honesty commends itself in many positive ways too. The most important of these is outlined for us at Proverbs 3:32: "For the devious person is a detestable thing to Jehovah, but His intimacy is with the upright [or, honest] ones."

  Those who cultivate such a fine relationship with the Creator know that they need not resort to trickery and deception to obtain the necessities of life. If they "keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness," which righteousness includes honesty, they are assured that "all these other things will be added to [them]."Matt. 6:33.

  Also, Bible study convinces one that "there is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving." The result? One is freed from the anxieties of materialism and enjoys a well-being that cannot be valued in dollars and cents.Acts 20:35.

  Yes, honesty requires effort. But a fine relationship with Jehovah God and its attendant blessings make it well worth the effort. The question remains though: Will you make the effort to be honest?
• 

  Matty

  minimus, this has obviously struck a chord with the UK contingent on jw.com - I think you have something here. I can also testify to social security scroungers pioneering. I also know of many "brothers and sisters" who claim disability benefit, but by all intents and purposes, there is simply nothing wrong with them.
• 

  Mary

  Oh yes, the welfare scam.......only it's not just those on welfare anymore, there's a whole new generation of good little Dubs that have the "Witness Disease": Fibromyalgia or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (translation: laziness). It's amazing how many pathetic lazy Witnesses I see going out in Service two and three times a week, all the while collecting a Disability cheque from the government. Yes, these losers are at every single meeting and are always out in service 7 days a week when the CO is visiting, but mention the word "work" and they'll melt into the very ground they stand on.......seeing as the Borg discourages higher education or working hard to get a good job, this surely can't come as any great surprise to any of us.
• 

  blondie

  Now I feel like deleting that article. It's too long, but it just burns me up.

  A brother in our area was on disability and was in the construction trade. Yet he signed up for quick build kingdom hall work as well as repairing things at his kingdom hall using a ladder and lifting heavy things.

  I have friends in that work in the part of the government that regulates disablity payments and said that he was on thin ice. If someone saw him, he would lose his disabled status.

  So I called the PO of his congregation and told him the opinion of the "superior authorities" and that the brother could lose his disability pension. Suddenly he was no longer qualified to go to the QBs or work around the KH. The PO tried to argue that it was different, but I said "if someone from that office drives by and sees him up on a ladder hammering, what kind of a witness would that give?" Case closed.

  Blondie