Picture of Note, page 16,17Obviously it was the untheocratic 2 door that sent him down the wrong path.Young white man with short hair and clean clothes, sitting in a dirty alley shooting up. Has 3 prominent tattoos and tie-dye shirt and jeans.
2 door convertible with young white woman and white man leaning on sharing a bottle in a paper bag (my personal opinion is dont drink and drive not matter your religious persuasion)
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 2-2-03 WT Study
by blondie 23 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Elsewhere
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petespal2002
Just a small point that I feel some of you out there will leap upon. As I understand it. never have the WTBTS ever said that those who haven't heard the message will be doomed. Isn't the idea that Jehovah will use jis power to look into their hearts and make a judgement based upon what He finds there. If He is omniscient surely He could foreknow how these would respond had they had an opportunity to hear the message!
What I would like to know in a similar vein is, what happens to all the babies at Armageddon? I look forward to some comments.
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blondie
Jehovah will use jis power to look into their hearts and make a judgement based upon what He finds there. If He is omniscient surely He could foreknow how these would respond had they had an opportunity to hear the message!
It that were the case, why preach at all? Why not have God just "foreknow" who will respond and who will not. JWs teach that God does not use his power of foreknowledge except in rare and specifc circumstances, such as with Esau and Jacob, predicting the older would serve the younger. No peter, foreknowing by God is out of harmony with what the WTS teaches.
Insight Volume 1 under Foreknowledge
Finally if, by Gods foreknowledge, the opportunity to receive the benefits of Christ Jesus ransom sacrifice were already irrevocably sealed off from some, perhaps for millions of individuals, even before their birth, so that such ones could never prove worthy, it could not truly be said that the ransom was made available to all men. (2Co 5:14, 15; 1Ti 2:5, 6; Heb 2:9)
In answer to the question, how these ones will be reached, the WTS basically said we do not know
9/15/65 Watchtower pages 575-6 Questions from Readers
Since millionsofpersonsinChinaandotherplaceshaveneverheardtheKingdommessage,
willthesepeoplebepreservedthroughthedestructionofBabylontheGreatandthewaro
fArmageddon,orperhapsberesurrectedlater?H.S.,U.S.A.
It is important to understand what the Bible says about the destruction to come at the end of this system of things. In his illustration of the sheep and the goats Jesus indicated that a separating work would be done "when the Son of man arrives in his glory," and that persons would be classed as either "sheep" or "goats." (Matt. 25:31-46) In part, the basis for the separation would be the reaction of people to the preaching of the good news of the established kingdom. That preaching work is now being done by Jehovahs witnesses. Jesus explained that those on earth who favorably responded to that message and treated kindly its bearers would be classed as "sheep" and would enter into "everlasting life." The rest of mankind who did not respond favorably to the preaching work and offered no aid to those who carried the Kingdom message would be classed as "goats" and would go, not into a temporary death, but into "everlasting cutting-off" at the time when judgment is executed.
But some persons, appreciating that millions of people are to be resurrected and given an opportunity to serve God,
wonder if the millions of individuals living today who apparently have never heard the Kingdom message preached will be everlastingly destroyed without ever having had a witness about Gods purposes.It is true that at present it appears that there are vast numbers of mankind who have not heard the Kingdom preaching . Also, from what the Bible says and from conditions in the world, we know that we are in the "last days." But we do not know just how much more will be accomplished in preaching the Kingdom message before the end comes. (2 Tim. 3:1-5; Matt. 24:3-13) If at the end of the second world war someone had said that the Kingdom preaching would be carried out, by more than a million publishers, in over 190 lands, including communistic countries, many might have found that hard to believe. Yet, Jehovah has blessed his people, and that is exactly what is being accomplished. So, if it is Jehovahs will to have this message personally carried to the millions on earth who seemingly have not yet heard it, that will be accomplished. If he chooses, he could see to it that this message is spread in ways that we cannot yet imagine. Jesus did foretell that "this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matt. 24:14) We can rest assured that God will see that the preaching work is done to his satisfaction . After that "the end" comes.
Basically, then the WTS says we have no idea how God will do this, that is, reach everyONE with the kingdom message, but he will. God is may be just, by JWs are definitely not. In this article they assume that all 6 million plus of them know the "very knowledge of God" and the rest do not. And without that knowledge they are doomed to destruction. First, not all JWs have that knowledge and the WTS, GB, FDS, whatever is not the judge of anyone on earth while they are here on earth. Yet they set themselves up as such. It's dangerous taking that authority, since only God's son has it.
Blondie
PS what happens to babies. Simple, if your parents are JWs, you live. If your parents are not JWs and doomed to destruction, you diie. Simple concept taught by JWs for years called family merit.
Edited by - Blondie on 30 January 2003 15:40:53
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jgnat
yaaah, Blondie! I love your full-context interpretation of Acts 27:17. I missed that.
Here are some of my comments:
This is supposed to be an article about Jehovah drawing close to us, not about us drawing close to Him. In the WT world view, however, continuous effort is required to maintain a connection with a God unaffected by what mere humans may do or refuse to do . Some excerpts this week:
...draw close to him....Jehovah gives [knowledge] only to those who are willing to search his word with honesty and humility...How Jehovah blesses those who are close to him!...Those who are close to Jehovah enjoy another blessing-divine protection...Jehovah is guarding all those loving him...Yes, Jehovah is near to those who love him and therefore can be swift in responding to their cries for help....The gift of prayer is yet another blessing that Jehovah bestows upon those who are close to him...Faithful servants in Bible times had complete confidence that Jehovah listens to prayer...We too have every reason to be confident that Jehovah is close, ready to hear our every thought and care...He values-in fact cherishes-the faithful services of his intelligent creatures...He rewards his servants...When we draw close to Jehovah, it is only natural that we want to use our time, energy, and resources to share as fully as possible in the Kingdom-reaching and disciple-making work....Our imperfect heart might even cause us to wonder whether Jehovah is pleased with our efforts...But Jehovah treasures every gift-no matter how small-that springs from a heart motivated by love...Jehovah will generously open his hand and satisfy the righteous desires of all who are close to him!...let us ask ourselves if we are making continuous effort to draw close to our heavenly Father. If we are, we can be certain that he will respond as he has promised. After all, God...cannot lie...If you draw close to him, he will draw close to you...Rich blessings now and the prospect of drawing ever closer to Jehovah throughout eternity!
What is left unsaid in this article is what happens in the JW universe to those who are unable to keep up the WT treadmill.
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blondie
Yes, jgnat, it is amazing what understanding can open up to read the scripture in context.
As to having too much to do, these scriptures show why JWs are burdened.
Matthew 23:4 ***
4 They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.Acts 15:10 ***
10 Now, therefore, why are YOU making a test of God by imposing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing?Luke 11:46 ***
46 Then he said: "Woe also to YOU who are versed in the Law, because YOU load men with loads hard to be borne, but YOU yourselves do not touch the loads with one of YOUR fingers!When Jesus was on earth, the religious leaders sought to control virtually every aspect of peoples lives through oppressive man-made traditions.
He pointed out that their burdensome man-made rules and traditions, including elaborate cleansings, made "the word of God invalid."
The Jewish elders and religious leadersthe scribes, the Pharisees, and othersproclaimed and exemplified a distorted view of justice and righteousness. As a result, the common people, who found it impossible to live up to the demands set by the scribes and Pharisees, likely imagined that Gods righteousness was far out of reach. (Matthew 23:4; Luke 11:46)
Blondie
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Pistoff
PS what happens to babies. Simple, if your parents are JWs, you live. If your parents are not JWs and doomed to destruction, you diie. Simple concept taught by JWs for years called family merit.
blondie, the last CO visit here he snuck this in: children are not covered by the faith of the parents.
So back to the old pressure to get children to commit to baptism, something about which they have NO idea how it will affect them later in life. But, as usual, the guilt and pressure gets turned up.
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minimus
Don't you think that these Watchtower pictures are terrible! Obviously, they get real JW's to depict these "worldly" individuals with their unchristian garb, tattoos and automobiles.The Society forces these "real Christians" to do bad things. Especially is this so when you see them smoking or getting involved with spiritism.
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blondie
Pistoff, I heard Jack Barr give the closing talk at the DC last year and he talked about older children not being able to depend on the spiritual standing of their parents. But pete's question was about babies. To date, JWs still don't believe in infant baptism although I have heard of 5 or 6 year olds being baptized, but not babies.
I always used to wonder what would happen if the end came before people had a chance to get baptized. After all, people make their dedication then have to wait until the next assembly to be baptized. What if Armageddon came between? The Ethiopian eunuch said what prevents me from being baptized and was instantly immersed. Why not now?
The WTS acts like it is a talisman that protects you from harm, like the blood on the doorpost.
minimus, what I thought was "interesting" was how "clean physically" the tattooed drug user was. Wait till a future article where a black brother has to wear a bad long wig to appear bad.
Blondie
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Mum
Yes, Eric Hoffer's book came to my mind as well when the I was reading part about the individual not mattering, but rather the group. Eric Hoffer said that people who feel inadequate and alienated are strongly attracted to movements employing groupthink because it does give them a "cause" beyond themselves and the here and now and makes them feel like a part of something "important" -- a feeling they could never have on their own.
So true also, Blondie, about "no widow's mite here." When I was very young, my elder husband told me that a young woman (who had a clerical job and lived in a government housing project with her JW mother, while her fleshly brother had rebelliously gone to college and had lots of money, married a "worldly" woman, but HE was and elder and HE was okay in the eyes of his fellow JW's) in our congregation was "marked" because she was a little bit nonconforming to the JW lifestyle. She actually wore fashionable clothes and made herself look attractive. She played tennis, so she met a "worldly" guy on the tennis courts and married him! The truth is, I think my husband had a "thing" for this girl and was bitter because she would never have given him a second look! Anyway, this young woman was doing all of the right things to the best of her ability and still living with her mother and contributing to her mother's welfare, but she wasn't doing enough somehow, but her brother was. I'm not saying her brother was a bad guy, BTW, but I don't understand why he was treated differently other than because he had a profession, plenty of money, and was male.
Close this vent!
SandraC
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MacHislopp
Hello Blondie ,
As usual great stuff, great comments and very fitting.
Allow me to add my opinion.
1) Have the over 1 billion each in India and China had such an opportunity? What about the millions in Muslim countries where evangelizing is proscribed with the sentence of death. Have these ones received the Kingdom message? No, then they are doomed. No paradise with everlasting life for them. Only a straight shot to Gehenna at Armageddon.
A real difficult point to debate with anyone!
2) Total I found over 50 commentaries quoted in the WTS publications. Now if the
"very knowledge of God" is not to be found, why use them as credible resources
to back their statements?
An excellent exemple of turning the table!
3) We do have an accurate understand of such matters. Why?
Jehovah has blessed us with insight into spiritual truth that escapes
many "wise and intellectual ones."
Considering what they wrote in the past and even todayhow on earth
Can they make such a claim: Jehovah has blessed us with insight into spiritual truth
4) 9/15/65 The Watchtower pages 575-6
Questions from Readers
In his illustration of the sheep and the goats Jesus indicated that a separating work would be done "when the Son of man arrives in his glory," and that persons would be classed as either "sheep" or "goats." (Matt. 25:31-46) In part, the basis for the separation would be the reaction of people to the preaching of the good news of the established kingdom. That preaching work is now being done by Jehovahs witnesses. Jesus explained that those on earth who favorably responded to that message and treated kindly its bearers would be classed as "sheep" and would enter into "everlasting life."
Well since all this kind of blessing with insight into spiritual truth coming from Jehovah (!!!) was nullified/modified/eliminated in 1995, I do believe that also the rest of the same article ,planned and written the WTBS Inc. is also without value.
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp