when do you die?

showme

This is kind of a continuation. In the thread "What happens to the dead". Rem & Funky corrected me on a false belief. The thought I had was that the enery that exists as brain waves and electrical impulses which make you heart beat, leave the body as soon as you are clinicly dead. So after looking into it a little more,the energy does store its self. But now I have a new question. How long? At some point the tissues get dryed up or decay. So the thought I am having is, "IF" the soul were connected to the living body, at what point does it leave the body? Or when does it cease to exist, depending on your beliefs. But at what point do you think we actually die.

peacefulpete

All biological life uses chemical/electrical systems. Crudely expressed, chemical reactions produce heat and energy for other chemical reactions. The movement of ions resulting from some of these reactions appear as electrical impulses. When the chemical processing stops the electrical energy stops. (death) Some more isolated systems in the body can maintain electrical activity longer than others when fuel sources (sugars etc.) are removed. This is why finger nails and hair follicules survive for a few days after brain death. Brain cells unfortunately, are extremely sensitive to loss of fuel, and begin the process of decay in minutes without fresh sugar and oxygen. O course, much of the chemical metabolizing is used in the building and repair of the body. This protein and fat of course slowly decays without the input of new energy from this chemical process. The stored chemical energy is utilized by other life forms who need our bodies chemicals to fuel their own systems. (bacteria, worms, daisies, etc) In this process of cellular decay and consumption heat is also released. This is why compost piles are warm. We of course are not aware of any of this beautiful recycling as our brain cells have long since ceased functioning. In other words we are dead. The idea of an outside impersonal electrial or spirit force that animates the body, such as is taught by the JWs, was popular before science understood the body's chemistry. The Frankenstein story reflected this belief at the time it was written.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 30 January 2003 12:55:34

Edited by - peacefulpete on 30 January 2003 16:4:0

rem

Showme,

Interesting question - when are we really dead? Another related question - Are we really human? You see, we are also made up of many foreign life forms (mostly bacteria - maybe even mytochondrial cells are foreign?) that make up much of our body weight. Are we technically dead even when these life supporting organisms are still alive? Are we only dead when the last cell of our body ceases to function? Or is it just when the brain dies? At what point does the alleged soul leave the body?

Also, if you believe in a soul, when exactly is the soul implanted in a new human being? At conception? Birth? Somewhere in between?

I personally don't believe in the soul concept because there is no evidence for it and it creates many more unanswered questions. As a theory it is not very fruitful, and unfortunately it is also irrefutable, which means it's pretty much useless.

rem

Satanus

When is the body dead? Some people die really easily. Others not so easy. Dannion brinkley got hit by lightning. His shoes and toe nails were welded to the carpet. Much of his body, internally and externally was fried/cooked. His body is claimed to have been dead for 15 or 20, or something like that. Afterward, he was paralysed for months. He was continuously expected to die again. A percentage of his heart was destroyed, so he had to slow down from doing what he did before his lightning experience. Do a search on him, as he's an interesting case.

So, there are no hard and fast standard answers. The same goes for when the soul is supposed to enter the zygot/fetus, rem. Regression therapy hypnotists have made a few claims in this area. Though i certainly won't attempt to prove anything on this.