New light!, says JW-Archive. The inspired word can have mistranslations, says Dec 2015 WT

by StarTrekAngel 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • CalebInFloroda
    CalebInFloroda

    Kaik is quite correct.

    The introduction of so-called "formal equivalent" versions into English have actually introduced mistranslations that still run amuck, even though the original intentions behind this rendition philosophy were good.

    For instance, the pronoun for G-d in Hebrew rendered "he" doesn't mean that in Hebrew. It means "it" in the sense of "genderless person." Because a neuter pronoun didn't exist in ancient Hebrew, word-for-word translations caused Christian exegetes to invent a false mysogynistic patriarchy as a background for Hebrew theology. It has taken many centuries to re-write this mistake and erase this invention, and to this day many Fundamentalist Christians still teach and believe it.

    The same goes for the famous phrase "thus saith the Lord." The actually expression which occurs in the Prophets is a noun, not a verb. It actually reads: "Oracle of YHWH." To date only one of the major Englsih versions renders this correctly, the NABRE, whereas all others still write it like a verb: "says the LORD." These are just two examples.

    So we are not only talking about reshaping the text before canonization, but making mistakes once the texts were finalized not only via copying but in the translation process into other languages.

  • kaik
    kaik

    Caleb, you are right on this. In the Renaissance, the bible translations from Vulgata to many European languages were performed. For example Czech translations were already done in the 1480's and scholars both Catholics and Protestants were not happy with the outcome. Czech Protestants eventually hired Jewish scholars to get the translation done from original language and skipping Vulgata altogether, which became known as Kralice Bible. Catholics did not agree with this translation, and created new one in the 17th century under Jesuit guidelines.

    So we are not only talking about reshaping the text before canonization, but making mistakes once the texts were finalized not only via copying but in the translation process into other languages.

    Now it also crucial that languages change and develop through the centuries, so spoken language in 1550 is far different from language today. Even Latin and Greek language went through development stage during Antiquity. The Classical Latin evolved in Medieval and later Renaissance until its usage among educated scholars declined in the Enlightenment. At the end, there is not really any perfect Bible translation.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy
    When I was getting all spiritual after learning of the JW doctrine to be incorrect I bought 5 different Bibles and also found an app for my phone that gives me access to over 40 translation. I did this to get the entended understanding of the written text since each Bible is a bit different and the implied meaning could be lost.
  • StarTrekAngel
    StarTrekAngel
    Saying that translations are not inspired and therefore implying that mistranslations are acceptable, is taking away credit from God. Look up the definition of inspiration under jw-org. This would not be the only place where you would find the contradictions. Many times before it has been studied that God would have to make sure the bible message gets to us unblemished. It is only logical. It would be ok in my view to say that the words may not be exact but the core idea is. The problem is that often times entire studies are dedicated to a single bible verse and sometimes entire magazine paragraphs dedicated to analyze a single word from the verse. When you do that, you can not be too careful as to question the translation of a single word.
  • CalebInFloroda
    CalebInFloroda

    StarTrekAngel,

    I think the problem is the way the JWs put the Scriptures on a pedestal unimagined by those who wrote its contents and even by those who were involved in the canonization.

    For the JWs, the Bible is a compendium of theology, the complete and final revelation of true religion.

    But for Jews, Catholics/Orthodox, and a large number of Protestants, the Bible was never the foundation of religious belief. Scripture is only the reflection of it.

    For the JW formula to work (i.e., religious truth is based on the Bible, and thus all in the Bible must be perfectly true), the Scriptures would have had to be composed and canonized before any form of true religion began. That is illogical.

    The Hebrew Scriptures were composed by religious Jews who already practiced a very well-established religion. Think of King David who, it is said, composed many of the Psalms. The Psalms are songs of true worship. True worship had to exist first in order for David to compose songs of true worship. This means that true worship comes from a source outside of Scripture, otherwise how could David ever become a true worshipper and compose a song and prayer to be used for true worship?

    The same thing goes for the Christian Scriptures. How could people write the Gospel without first coming into contact with Jesus? If the Scriptures are the last word on revelation from G-d, why did Jesus ever need to come in the first place? Why have apostles chosen? Why not just write things down and tell people to believe in them?

    This is because the true religion of Christianity existed outside and before the New Testament was composed. A written compendium of beliefs was never made a requisite by Jesus. Most of the apostles never wrote a thing down that we have today. The reason for the college of apostles is because the Church needed living witnesses of the events of Jesus' life. If it was all about following what was written in a book, why have such a college or why have someone outside of it, Paul, compose the majority of the Christian canon?

    Scripture is still used by Jews and Catholics and Orthodox (and a few Protestants) the way it was intended when first composed. Have you ever seen a breviary or book used to daven? If you never have, you don't squat about Scripture--I know that might sound insulting, however...

    Liturgy was the reason for Scripture. The tales of the origin of the Jewish religion were lived from day to day across the yearly calendar. At first they were told orally, but eventually they became written down. If you note when you read Scripture, a lot of it is poetry. That is because Scripture was designed to be sung or chanted in public worship throughout the year on a calendar we now call the Liturgical Calendar.

    Christians followed the same pattern, adding days or feasts based on events in the life of Christ. Texts were composed to be read during the Liturgy for these specific days of the year. You don't believe that Mary literally sang the Magnificat of Luke 1.46-55 do you? Why would the Gospel of John begin with a song? Why is so much of Isaiah and most of Job written as poetry? When was the last time you read a theological treatise written in poetry or verse?

    Sorry, JWs, but the Bible was made for worship services, the Liturgy, and not as a revelation of basic truths. It is still chanted and sung to this day in synagogues, churches, and homes by Catholics, Jews, and the Orthodox. The Bible is the product of religion, not its basis.

    Christianity is not based on the Bible. It is based on Jesus Christ, a person. The Bible (New Testament) is based on Christianity.

    The same goes for the Hebrew Scriptures. They are not the basis for Judaism. Judaism is based on the Great Theophany at Sinai, not the Scriptures. The Hebrews in slavery in Egypt did not, like Joseph Smith, dig up the Bible from the ground, read it, and decide to build a religion based on its words. Instead the Jews lived for centuries on their land and eventually composed books based on their religious beliefs, practices, and mythology.

    Religion first. Book last. That is why the words therein don't have to be perfect.

    The JWs have it backwards: Book first, religion last. That sounds like Mormonism to me.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Village Idiot - "...if the New Testament writers are supposed to be writing 'inspired' literature why should God allow them to get something wrong?

    My late father used to explain it as "God allowing the faith of future readers to be tested".

    In his defense, I think he actually believed this, and wasn't just trying to cop out.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy
    You would think they would not tell their followers the Bible translaters were not inspired,. This should open up a can of questions and thinking by the R&f. I sure it will wake up some but not many. Zombies.
  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    Ironic that the evolution of language is making Biblical literalism harder and harder to nail down. :smirk:

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