God is dead

by joannadandy 34 Replies latest members adult

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    A few weeks ago I had a similar conversation with my parents.

  • SPAZnik
    SPAZnik

    Congratulations on standing up for yourself and what you believe or don't believe.

    I'm sorry you've had to deal with people that don't respect your viewpoint and right to hold/express an opinion, informed or otherwise, that may differ from theirs. It's tuff being raised in a borg like world where people muscle their way around, rather than respecting others, embracing discussion and welcoming counter-opinions and freedom of thought and movement.

    I'm also sorry if the manner in which you feel forced to deal with such attitudes by them, ends up painting you the bad guy or costing you relationships with people you care about.

    I empathize with your situation cuz I've had the same kinda tendancy before (letting things bottle up and allowing people to say and do unfair things to me without me standing up for myself, until finally i practically self combust). I'm getting better at asserting myself early on, it takes a long time to change patterns like this, so i still sometimes let things go by. Part of this problem, for me, comes not from being overly emotional, but even from being overly rational in a situation (ie. analyzing thing from everyone elses viewpoint and seeing where they are coming from, but failing to assert my own viewpoint. I mean, if I don't love and respect my own right to an opinion, who else is gonna?

    "The shell must break before the bird can fly" - Alfred Lord Tennyson

    SPAZ

    "I may be wrong, but don't I have the right to be wrong?" - Ashleigh Brilliant

  • Shutterbug
    Shutterbug

    It started off simple enough. I simply expressed my disagreement. Free from emotion even! And then we were off. My mother quickly came in from the kitchen yelling at me about "how can you say that

  • She needs prozac because I don't go to meetings
  • She can't go to meetings because she is embarassed that I am not there
  • She is hurt when people ask where I am
  • She tried to kill herself, because of me
  • Joanna,

    Just a guess, but apparently you are not the only emotional one in the family, you evidently come by your emotions honestly, thru your mother. Robdar is right, your mother may be questioning her own faith and she is, no doubt, somewhat conflicted by those questions. So, when you bring up things that don't fit her dub trained mind, she has trouble handling the situation.

    Suggest you bring your own emotions under control, if possible, and try to understand what is really troubling your mother. Bug

  • Brummie
    Brummie
    "The shell must break before the bird can fly" - Alfred Lord Tennyson ....SPAZ

    Wow, such a short statement with a huge meaning! Thx for that!

    Thinking of ya Joe, keep your wicked sense of humour, it will get you through the toughest times your parents can heap upon you.

    Brummie (I kinda miss those little thoughts in the footnotes of our posts, what happened to em?)

  • Aztec
    Aztec

    Joanna, I wish I had the guts to stand up to my parents like you did. I'm very impressed! I hope you are doing better today.Keep your sense of humor and it will make things easier.

    With love,

    ~Aztec

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Hi, Joanna,

    I'm going to talk to you like a grumpy old Dad now, so listen up. I'm the father of 5 daughters and been married 42 years to a wonderful little gal that I love with all my heart. The oldest daughter is now 41 and the youngest is 25, so I reckon you fall somewhere in there. When it comes to matters like this, I've seen them all.

    First, there's nothing wrong with you, period. There are very few people who can have a confrontation like that one and not be emotional. That goes for both you and your parents. It surprises me that it lasted that long, and if you will stand back and look at it a little, its very length indicates the amount of love and caring there is between you. If that wasn't the case, you would have stomped off a lot sooner, or they would have thrown you out.

    If you did NOT become emotional, THEN that is the time to worry. That can indicate that you are becoming callused and hard, and when that happens, you will tend to quit caring for truth, fairplay, and justice. You can end up becoming as bad as those who have done the injustices to you.

    I know this because I myself have come to that point where such a confrontation is as easy to me as sitting down to breakfast. I can have one and it effects my mood not at all, except perhaps, for relief. I can immediately go have a big meal and enjoy it, or hit the sack and sleep soundly. I realized the danger, so have long since taken positive action to counteract the bad effects of this. That consists of deliberately giving others the benefit of the doubt and/or enduring their outbursts long enough to see what mitigating factors may be involved, then coming back at them in ways they don't expect. Those ways usually defuse the problem. I've made some wonderful friends in this manner.

    But along with that danger is one wonderful benefit. One can think in the midst of the chaos, and sometimes come up with such practical solutions.

    Secondly, there may be an opportunity here for you too. I'll give one such scenario, but as I don't know the personalities involved, you will need to taylor it to your own circumstances. Here's how it could go:

    When you see them again and the situation feels right, bring up the subject again about how your mother feels like a failure. If you're not up tight and feeling bad, pretend. Tell her how it distresses you for her to say that. Come up with some times that you have treasured when you were younger and recount them briefly. One about your father wouldn't hurt either. If there was some advice they gave you that helped you, mention it. The bottom line .... you are glad that you are their daughter, and grateful for the training you received. (Hopefully, your relationship is such that you are.)

    Now relate to them how they taught you to think and reason so that when you became an adult you could stand on your feet and not be victim to the selfishness of the world, which is everywhere, and that you are grateful for that.

    Now, however, you feel devastated, as they are demanding that you go against the very things they taught you to do. The scriptures say that we should not judge matters before we hear them (Prov. 18:13), but that is what they are doing, and are demanding that you do it too. (Involving the accusations against the Society.) They trained you to have faith in them, but now when you come to them with something serious, they don't even have enough faith in you to investigate it.

    Also, when people come to us with an earnest concern, the Bible states that we should be "always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect." But they are doing neither of those things, and indeed are even demanding that you hate your "enemies", instead of loving them as Jesus commanded. (Matt. 5:43-47 --- and pay special attention to 47.)

    Now, take something you've read in your hand that especially bothers you, and ask them earnestly, "How can I ignore this, and what kind of an answer can I give to it?" (Another possibility would be to put the whole thing in the form of a letter. Most people will read something even if they won't talk to you face to face.) If you don't already have something like that, look these over:

    Blood Issue.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=41260&site=3

    Taking too much glory upon themselves.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=16556&site=3

    They are a couple of things I wrote a while back. Feel free to adapt them in any way that can help.

    Keep your chin up girl, and don't be too quick to feel that God is dead. I've seen too many exquisite things in this world to believe that, and leading the list is the look of awe and wonder and love on a young mother's face when she sees her newborn for the first time.

    Be good, kid.

    LoneWolf

    Edited to put the links in. My computor was acting up and wouldn't let me the first time.

    Edited by - LoneWolf on 19 January 2003 9:46:20

  • MYOHNSEPH
    MYOHNSEPH

    Joanna, you do indeed sound like a dandy! I have four daughters, and although I've never been involved in the particular type of parent/child dialogue you describe, I can imagine how traumatic this was for you and your parents. The emotion of any conflict or confrontation is always augmented when the people involved happen to love each other. My heart goes out to you all. However, it's been my experience that rarely do we encounter anything in life which proves to be as horrible, or as wonderful, as it may first appear. Time has a way of taking the cutting edge off things. With the passing of time, we are usually able to look at a situation, out of the emotional glare of the moment, just a bit more circumspectly. I suspect that in time you will you will see this as very positive incident in your life. None of us need to live our lives under a veil, nor should we expect others to do so, whether they are our children, parents, life partners, or whoever. And before we can rightfully expect anyone else to accept us for the individual we are, we must first accept, and have the courage to proclaim, just who we are. I think you've taken a courageous and positive step. Bless you!

  • eyegirl
    eyegirl

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((jo))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    i wish you'd have called me last night--i'd have been on my way in a flash. or you are always welcome here. my heart wells up with respect for you, because standing up like you did, well i know that's something i'm not sure i could ever do. the fact that you even have to deal with all of this just sucks--you're one of the sweetest people i know and it's truly and honor to call you a friend. i love you girlie and you know you have friends close by who do too. i know we can't offer you better parents, but you've got two big sisters up north who will welcome you with open arms anytime.

    beck

  • not interested
    not interested

    ((((((JO)))))))

    well im not a good one for words, just want to let ya know that i got your back, your a great friend and a wonderful person,

    I rember similar conversaitons with my parents, diffference though, i wasnt living with them, that has to be stressful, how long can you walk on eggshels around them, it was bound to blow sooner or later. the fact that its out in the open now, should feel good, or at least bitter sweet,

    anyway just want to let ya know that if you need to get away for a bit, i have a extra room, and im not that far from ya,

    JO you may think that your *up but you have a good head on your shoulders, your young, you have nothing but great things to look forward to, Hard part is letting go of the past, and your family, its enough to make you belive in hell, orat least it ws for me breaking the ties with mine, but as the saying goes "time heals all wounds" of somthing like that, an JO you have time on your side, and friends at your back

    take care and ill talk to ya soon

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    actually Jo, I think you just proved She Lives!

    carmel

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