Geoffrey Jackson on "corporal punishment"

by opusdei1972 19 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    Proverbs 23:13,14

    Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.

    Sounds like a physical beating to me where a person is encouraged to beat one's child and not worry about killing him.
    I think they did change their policy about hitting children around the late 1990's and no longer pushed for corporal punishment due to a enlightened society's stand and legal ramifications towards it. I do remember a public talk in the 1970 where they put down Dr Benjamin Spock's for his stand against spanking of children and showed the bible's admonition to spank one's child as superior advice.

  • defender of truth
    defender of truth

    This is still on the online Insight Book.

    Insight Book
    ROD, STAFF
    Uses. Rods or staffs were used...to punish children, slaves, or others (Ex 21:20 [“stick,” NW]; Pr 10:13; 23:13, 14; Ac 16:22)

    Parental authority.

    “Rod” is used also to symbolize the authority of parents over their children.

    The book of Proverbs makes many references to this authority, the term symbolizing all forms of discipline used, including the literal rod used for chastisement.
    The parent is actually responsible before God to exercise this rod, controlling the child.
    If the parent fails in this, he will bring ruination and death to his child and disgrace and God’s disapproval to himself also. (Pr 10:1; 15:20; 17:25; 19:13)
    “Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him.”

    “Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from Sheol itself.” (Pr 22:15; 23:13, 14)

    In fact, “the one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”—Pr 13:24; 19:18; 29:15; 1Sa 2:27-36.

    http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003754#h=4
  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Brokeback WT - "...as she was being dragged to the disciplining area she cried out loudly 'Help me Jehovah!'"

    I hated that story almost as much as the one about the JW kid who blew off his "worldy" friend by saying, "...you're a bad association, and I'm a useful habit!"

  • Mary J Blige
    Mary J Blige

    @Defender of Truth

    I am after the Insight book vs Aid book definitions of lies.... can you help?

    I think this relates to GJs testimony and will be the next dubbins defence.

  • defender of truth
  • defender of truth
    defender of truth

    Especially this:

    While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.

    Jesus Christ counseled: “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open.” (Mt 7:6)

    That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Mt 15:1-6; 21:23-27; Joh 7:3-10)

    Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.—Ge 12:10-19; chap 20; 26:1-10; Jos 2:1-6; Jas 2:25; 2Ki 6:11-23

    http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102000087?q=lies&p=par

  • rebelfighter
    rebelfighter

    This is another reason I am sure the "Elder" never discussed his religion with me. Although he did indicate I should give up all my memberships in the multiple Masonic groups that I belong to. I will relate one incident that recently occurred at a youth function, a mom was attempting to get her daughter's attention so she put 2 fingers on her chin. Obviously a little firmer then she thought. She left a bruise which was observed a little while later by another adult -- no questions were asked -- authorities were called and investigation by trained professionals.

    I raised 2 children as a single parent, not once did I strike them. On most occasions a simple look from MOM most definitely would straighten out any misbehavior. You can accomplish a lot more with honey.

    On another note: a LIE IS A LIE IS A LIE! My children learned that part of the 10 commandments before they were out of diapers. And like I told the "Elder " in my final email Jehovah knows when YOU are lying, so how do YOU face him?

  • JHK
    JHK
    "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it"...
  • Mary J Blige
    Mary J Blige

    Thank you defender of truth. I must confess that I am a physical book freak no matter how fabulous and convenient modern technology.

    "That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Mt 15:1-6; 21:23-27; Joh 7:3-10)

    Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.—Ge 12:10-19; chap 20; 26:1-10; Jos 2:1-6; Jas 2:25; 2Ki 6:11-23"

    Interesting. So Jesus who never told a lie, the mirror image of his father who also cannot lie... are likened to imperfect humans?

    We "evidently... must.. view in the same light" Rahab's example? Quite a long bow! There goes that suggestive speech again... "evidently we must view" but in 1975 evidently, it appears that some people misunderstood the WT and misapplied doctrine that WT may have suggested...

  • defender of truth
    defender of truth

    BTTT

    The above quote from the Insight book entry on Rod/Staff, shows clearly that beating a child is encouraged, if it's deemed 'necessary' to keep your child on the straight and narrow..

    In other words, if beating your kids is what is necessary to make them sit still at meetings.. You must do it.

    I'll just highlight this part of the quote again, but please read it all if you haven't noticed it before (2nd post on page 2 of this thread) :

    The book of Proverbs makes many references to this authority, the term symbolizing all forms of discipline used, including the literal rod used for chastisement.
    The parent is actually responsible before God to exercise this rod, controlling the child.
    If the parent fails in this, he will bring ruination and death to his child and disgrace and God’s disapproval to himself also. (Pr 10:1; 15:20; 17:25; 19:13)

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