alcoholics/non-alcoholics and AA

by IronGland 18 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  BeautifulGarbage

  I used to attend 12 step meetings years ago. Even bought into the whole "disease" concept, especially with alcoholics. My family is loaded heavy drinkers. Some have even died as a result of their chronic drinking (My maternal Grandfather and an uncle on my Father's side). Growing up, we might not have had enough to eat, but their was always plenty of booze. My Dad ruined his health drinking. I used to drink beer as a young kid. Yet, I'm not a drinker at all as an adult. Complete t-totaller. Two drinks and my body just shuts off. So much for heredity and alcoholism.

  I do not believe it to be a disease at this time. Why? Because there is no formal physical diagnosing. If alcoholics are "different" biologically, then why aren't there tests done to confirm their abnormality from the rest of the general population. When one suspects they have any other disease, there is usually a test, or battery of tests done to confirm such a diagnoses.

  For instance, there is suppose to be an actual difference in the way the brain of a potential alcoholic develops. Well, ok, fine. Yet, when one goes to a treatment center, no brain scans are done to, indeed, see if the patient's own brain has developed in such a manner to support the diagnoses of the "disease" of alcoholism.

  Diagnoses is determined purely by behavior alone.

  Can you imagine anyone who suspected they had cancer not undergrowing formal medical testing?

  However, I do believe that Alcoholism is disorder and a powerful one at that and AA can be of tremendous support to those have a compulsion to drink to their determent.
  
• 

  ballistic

  I read somewhere that there was not only possible genetic factors but an actual change in the metabolism of alcohol in the life course of a heavy drinker as the body "learned" the best way to get rid of alcohol.

  I can't remember the science behind this but as an up-and-coming heavy drinker I found it quite interesting.

  It makes sense to me that your experience of alcohol abuse on your body does change over time... it makes sense from experience that there is something further than tolerance build up but change in effect also.
• 

  Granny Linda

  The question of what makes an alcoholic was always a good topic at meetings. Of course A.A. has it's dogma. One man's cup of tea is another man's poison, too. It helped me, and countless others, but by no means the only way...as they tend to preach at those in attendance.

  One of the biggest issues confronting me during those early years was about religious abuse. What helped me was learning about Shame. This is so common place that many people haven't a clue as to what it is, how it effects the individual, how the family unit functions on such sickness. Always it's the addicts' problem...but not so!

  At any rate it's always a wonderful thing when someone reaches out for help. I spent 5 years in different 12-step programs, and have been blessed ever since. I left A.A., because, for me, the religious overtones became too heavy handed, and it reminded me of those horrible JW days. Besides, my time was better spent in private reading and pesonal inspection versus sitting for an hour or so watching and listening to the passing parade. It gets pretty weird at times. There are some seriously mentally ill individuals that will never, despite years of sobriety, change the whole person. Beware of users and abusers. Oh, and then there is, "musical beds." It's a trip. I'm so grateful for the experience.

  I'm eternally grateful for my recovery not only from being a daily drunkard, but finding freedom from the bondage of religious abuse that probably surpasses any other type addiction. It's SHAME. Your are not/ will not ever be good enough....sound familiar.

  Oh, I highly recommend John Bradshaw. Excellent insight into family dynamics of alcoholism and religious abuse. The two are bedfellows in many, many instances. Take care, friend.

  granny
• 

  Lost Diamond

  IronGland,

  I found this information on Alcoholism, especially regarding women....I thought you might find it very interesting.

  LD

  http://165.112.78.61/NIDA_Notes/NN0013.html

  Edited by - Lost Diamond on 8 January 2003 22:42:41
• 

  SloBoy

  IronGland,

  Check out a very good book answering all your questions: "Under the Influence" by Dr. Ketchum. It is available in paperback. Most good book stores can find it for you either by the title or by the name Ketchum. If Ketchum is wrong, try Ketcham.

  Alcohol does do something different in the alcoholics body. Plain and simple. Alcoholics are allergic to alcohol. Just like some people are allergic to peanuts and peanuts do something different to their body than your Normal peanut ingestion.

  Check out the book, you might find it quite revealing. Try reading the Big Book of AA also.

  Beware of Contempt Prior to Investigation.

  Best Wishes

  SloBoy's Spouse / From a long line of people who didn't metabolize normally.
• 

  animal

  AA works for some, and for others it is just another addiction. If you go to an AA meeting, you will see loads of coffee, and people standing around drinking. No judgement, just an observation.

  I refused to go to any meetings. Instead, I took a different route, as noted in one of my posts a few weeks ago. I am of the belief that if someone wants to stop drinking, they will. If not, they will not.

  There is a load of money to be made in the alchoholic industry, from selling it, to treating it, to locking them up. Locking someone up does nothing to solve the problem, the only solution is stopping the trigger that makes a person drink a lot. Until that is done, nothing will change.

  I am not anti-drinking at all. I enjoy beer, and have learned to sit and sip for hours without getting loaded. Each person has thier own thing going on, and too many get labeled "alchoholic" than need to be.

  Animal
• 

  BeautifulGarbage

  If you go to an AA meeting, you will see loads of coffee, and people standing around drinking
  

  Indeed, tis true!

  A had a friend that was involved in AA a few years ago. There had been an AA weekend "retreat" at a mountain camp that the area group had sponsored. Normally, the camp provided coffee free of charge to various groups that held events there. It was the first time this particular place had AA used their place. The owners of the camp were so blown away by the huge amount of coffee that was consumed over the weekend, that they informed my friend, who help organize the event, that they would have to charge them for coffee if they wanted to use their facility again.

  Andee
• 

  YERU2

  Here's how I understand the issue of Alcoholism. When SOME alcoholics metabolize alcohol a different process takes place than in the average person. In all people, when alcohol is broken down the very first thing it does is become a toxin (thus alcohol poisoning, hang-overs, etc). The body then immediately breaks this toxin down into non-toxic components. With SOME alcoholics the next step is that this toxin combines with the dopamine produced in the brain creating something called THIQ. I'm not really sure what this is except that it's the same chemical produced by taking heroin. It's the addictive quality of heroin. Thus, for SOME alcoholics it's a true physical addiction the same as heroin is addictive.

  This was stumbled upon when doctors started getting the bodies of "bums" to study. It was noticed that none of the "bums" were heroin addicts, yet had the same chemical by product as a heroin addict.

  I say SOME alcoholics because this can only be discovered by cutting open the brain. I trully believe that some are psychologically addicted as opposed to physically. I fully convinced that no amount of "will power" can help a true alcoholic stop drinking. An enormous amount of "want power" is necessary though.

  AA has the best recovery rate of any program or treatment out there, and the rate for AA is low, only somewhere around 30 percent at best. True, some become addicted to meetings, but that is a healthier addiction than the alcohol itself.

  Personally, I haven't been to a meeting in about four years, (sober for 9 years as of 14 Nov).
• 

  LyinEyes

  I am not sure about the genetics playing a part in being an alcoholic. But there is alot I have read that says it is. I am part Native American, and let me tell you ,,, almost all of my family are heavy drinkers, even full blown alcoholics, Ihave an uncle who can drink and drink and still function without you even suspecting it. It is also true with native americans, there is a high number who have diabetes, and heart diesese,,,,,,,also very , very true for my family. It is not just their diet,,, many of them have some kind of inherited problem with their liver functions. Of course you might think this is because so many of them drink,,,,,,,, well ,my dad doesnt drink, and his liver functions so poorly he is only daily meds for it. This is a big family and if you put them on two sides the drinkers and non drinkers,,,,, the diabetes, heart problems and liver function is the same.

  If a person can inherite depression,,, all kinds of mental disorders , or blue eyes, or red hair, or whatever, I think it is possible that some may be predisposed to being alcholics. I think for some the one drink , or the one drug,,,,snow balls into a chemical change in their bodies, that maybe normal people who do not have this genetic makeup do no experience.

  Alcohol and Drug addiction affects the body the same way, the same damage, the same dependency. At least that is what I learned going to meetings with my mom,,,, who abused prescription pain pills but never drank.

  I think once the cycle starts with a person become an alcoholic, other factors kick in too, it changes your brain chemistry, which inturn changes your personality and makes your body crave it. That is why it is so hard to kick the problem,,, you have the emotional aspect and the physical. It is hell, and I have seen it up close and personal.

  I drink , but I dont drink every day,,,,,, sometimes can go months not even wanting a drink.... lol... not here lately thou. But honestly I don't feel I have to drink everyday, or every week. Now to tell you the truth if I had easy access to pain pills,,,,,,, I would worry. I have alot of pain problems , that would be so easily gone with pain pills. I try to stay away from those, because I do think I have an addictive personality when it comes to that. Learned behavior as a child , maybe. Genetic maybe?