The Romans did not crucify robbers

by purrpurr 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jhine
    jhine

    I suspect that the JW practice of denying the use of a cross to kill Jesus also serves the purpose of keeping Witnesses apart from other religions . It gives them another reason to look down on Christendom . Their assertion that the idea of the Trinity and the cross came into Christendom because of apostacy makes them feel superior . Because , of course , they are the only ones who get it " right " .

    Caleb I appreciate the fact that although you are not a Christian you are prepared to put the record straight when you can . It is nice that you are non partisan and are just interested in the facts .

    Jan

  • CalebInFloroda
    CalebInFloroda

    @jhine

    While I cannot promise I can walk that line perfectly, I have worked professionally with Catholics on translation and other theological projects. There is a very healthy dialogue between the two religions at present, part of which deals with a new understanding in Catholicism, namely that Catholics no longer believe in Superssionism and that the Jews are thus still in an active covenant relationship with G-d.

    I cannot, of course, speak of the effects that this change is having on Catholic theology or practice, but I can use what I've learned through the years about Christianity and New Testament history to give some help in uncovering the problems JW theology has put upon itself by its peculiar reading of the Scriptures.

    The idea that Christianity can exist without believing in a literal crucifixion or denying that Jesus was believed to be the very incarnation of YHWH is highly problematic. If these things weren't true, then there would be, for one thing, a very noticeable gap in Judaism's refusal to accept Jesus as the Messiah.

    Witnesses tend to forget that as long as there has been a Christianity there has also been Jews claiming they don't believe in Jesus due to belief in his divinity and use and worship of the cross by Christians. Belief in Jesus requires what Jews see as defying the Shema, our most sacred prayer: "Hear, O Israel: Adonai is G-d. Adonai is One!" And the way the cross is used and displayed—well for Jews that's just plain idolatry.

    If what the JWs claim is true, then how did Jews develop these counter-arguments regarding Jesus? If Jesus is just "a god" like the angels, why would Jews claim belief in Jesus violates the Shema? If Jesus did not die on a cross, why would Jews have arguments against its use in worship?

    Until just recently with the release of the NRSV: Jewish Annotated New Testament (which is fruit of the Catholic-Jewish dialogue began in the 1960s), Jews had no access to or attempted to read the New Testament. Where did they get these ideas about the Incarnation and a cross and crucifixion (that is, not to mention our own history of the Second Temple era where we ourselves testify to the fact that Romans had a habit of nailing Jews to crosses who, by the way, weren't Jesus)? These Jewish counter-arguments are older than the Christian canon.

    Jehovah's Witnesses do not think three-dimensionally. You can't take away "cross," the belief in the Incarnation, and you even have a problem with Petrine authority in the first century Church (as well as numerous other problems) if you take Witness theology as accurate. It doesn't work, and that's speaking for anyone whether you're a Jew or not.

  • CalebInFloroda
    CalebInFloroda

    @Terry

    Actually the New Testament isn't being contradicting regarding putting people to death.

    Under Roman law Jews were not allowed to impose the death penalty, but it is likely that the lynching of Stephen took place as recorded. I don't find it hard to imagine that certain Jews did carry out such an illegal stoning. People do that kind of thing, take matters into their own hands, and my people do have a history of defying Gentile authority. So Stephen's death is probably not too far-fetched a report.

  • TD
    TD
    --Ditto for the woman allegedly caught in adultery. In the story, Jesus diffuses the situation and disperses the crowd, but had they stoned her, it would have been vigilante rather than Roman justice.
  • jhine
    jhine

    Caleb, of course the WT ignores all this and continues with their version of history !.

    Jan

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