Is Christmas Pagan or Christian?

by whyhideit 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • whyhideit
    whyhideit

    As the Christmas Holiday approaches, it brings out the comments from my Witness family members to attempt to belittle our practice of enjoying the holiday. When we first left the Jehovah's Witnesses and decided to celebrate Christmas, we still considered ourselves to be Christians. So the argument of choice from our relatives was, "how can you call yourself Christians and celebrate such a Pagan holiday." Then as the years went by and we came to find we were more in tune to Pagan thinking and believes, the family became aware of this. So this year they decided to try something new in their efforts to strike fear into us. This is the argument they expressed, "how can you choose to celebrate something that is seen as such a Christian holiday, when you consider yourself Pagan" (Pagan or Neo-Pagan, term used to describe a more earth and nature-based religion or philosophy . Not really a title, more of a generalization). So I am confused, when I was a Witness I was told Christmas was all Pagan and now it seems some times they can accept it as Christian. Oh well, we do not really celebrate Christmas anyway. We celebrate Yule*, which was yesterday and was very enjoyable. We will be celebrating Christmas with our Christian relatives on Wednesday. So I guess we get the best of both world, Christian and Pagan, and both seem to be a reason to avoid something, if you are a Witness. By the way, the way we answered both attempts was to say, "because we find it enjoyable, and we have fun."

    *Yule: the Winter Solstice, Yuletide (Teutonic), Alban Arthan (Caledonii) Around Dec. 21This Sabbat represents the rebirth of light. Here, on the longest night of the year, the Goddess gives birth to the Sun God and hope for new light is reborn.

    Yule is a time of awakening to new goals and leaving old regrets behind. Yule coincides closely with the Christian Christmas celebration. Christmas was once a movable feast celebrated many different times during the year. The choice of December 25 was made by the Pope Julius I in the fourth century AD because this coincided with the pagan rituals of Winter Solstice, or Return of the Sun. The intent was to replace the pagan celebration with the Christian one.

    The Christian tradition of a Christmas tree has its origins in the Pagan Yule celebration. Pagan families would bring a live tree into the home so the wood spirits would have a place to keep warm during the cold winter months. Bells were hung in the limbs so you could tell when a spirit was present. Food and treats were hung on the branches for the spirits to eat and a five-pointed star, the pentagram, symbol of the five elements, was placed atop the tree. The colors of the season, red and green, also are of Pagan origin, as is the custom of exchanging gifts.

    A solar festival, The reindeer stag is also a reminder of the Horned God. You will find that many traditional Christmas decorations have some type of Pagan ancestry or significance that can be added to your Yule holiday. Yule is celebrated by fire and the use of a Yule log. Many enjoy the practice of lighting the Yule Log. If you choose to burn one, select a proper log of oak or pine (never Elder). Carve or chalk upon it a figure of the Sun (a rayed disc) or the Horned God (a horned circle). Set it alight in the fireplace at dusk, on Yule. This is a graphic representation of the rebirth of the God within the sacred fire of the Mother Goddess. As the log burns, visualize the Sun shining within it and think of the coming warmer days. Traditionally, a portion of the Yule Log is saved to be used in lighting next year's log. This piece is kept throughout the year to protect the home.

    Edited by - whyhideit on 22 December 2002 16:38:18

  • Francois
    Francois

    How can we celebrate Christmas and still call ourselves Christians? The same way we use the names of the days, weeks and months and still call ourselves Christians; the same way we use funeral and marriage rites left over from "paganism" and still call ourselves Christian...um, how long would you like this list to be?

  • whyhideit
    whyhideit

    I once read a book, title escapes me, that basically showed that everything we say, do and use, can be rooted to Pagan customs and beliefs. To be free, we would need to not speak, not eat and not even see other people. For fear that we may step into a level of Paganism. Pagan practices are a fact of life.

    I wanted to add this above, but I will put it here. This is a ritual used at Yule. I find it interesting, as I actually could trace elements of this to ancient Christian prayer and ritual.

    Yule Fire Ritual

    On the darkest night of the year gather three dried leaves of holly and pulverize them into powder. On a clean, four-inch by four-inch piece of parchment paper, write a single word in red ink that represents what quality or trait you would like to be born within yourself along with the newborn Yule sun. Sprinkle the holly powder into the center of the paper and twist it closed with the holly powder inside. Light the wick of a red candle, and from this flame light the holly filled paper on fire. As it burns see your wish fulfilled. The spell is done.

    Edited by - whyhideit on 22 December 2002 16:47:57

  • gumby
    gumby

    I have never met anyone who worshipped someone other than God at this time of year. The pagans worshipped their Gods. The question would be....Am I worshipping the God/s the Pagans did? I think you would say no...of course not. Then why worry about it.

    The bible itself said not to judge a man who honors one day above another if it was to God. Would YOU celebrate christmas to God? Then don't worry.

    Everything we do today came from the pagans somewhere down the road as Francois said.Were it not for the Witnesses to drag up ancient history and remind people where these holidays came from.....no one would know! (at least few)

    If you really want a lot to swallow......Christianity, and before them... the hebrew faith....came from the pagans.

  • whyhideit
    whyhideit

    While I do recognize Yule over Christmas as my choice of celebration. I would like to clarify that the information I posted is taken from a website online, and not from my actual way of celebrating the holiday. I do not see God's in my life, and Goddesses in the fashion that is mentioned in these examples. I do not see God as a individual or person, God to me is nature and life. God is Spirit. That is just my personal view.

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Gumby,

    I see you're from Christmas Island. How interesting! I must admit my ignorance in geography. Where is it located? The origin of the name--I presume it was founded on that date? Anything else of interest pertaining to the Island you might want to share with us?

  • Dizzy Cat
    Dizzy Cat

    It is of Pagan in origin quite obviously.

    I think the question should be for a practising Christian:

    Is Christmas a morally upright celebration and something Christ would be proud of ?

  • Mary
    Mary

    Francois said: the same way we use funeral and marriage rites left over from "paganism.

    Francois, can you give me some examples of funeral and marriage rites that are pagan? I'm dying to show some JW friends that alot of rituals we have today are all from "pagan" origin.....therefore, we shouldn't be so picky about Christmas .

  • whyhideit
    whyhideit

    This is kind of a interesting article on how wedding traditions started with Pagan beginnings.

    Origins of Wedding Traditions

    The first marriages were by capture, i.e., the groom would kidnap the woman, and take her away from her tribe with the help of a warrior friend, his best man, who would help him fight off other men who wanted this woman, and also help him prevent her family from finding them. The groom would put himself and his bride into hiding, the honeymoon, and by the time the brides family found them, the bride would already be pregnant. When the groom fought off other warriors who also wanted his bride, he would hold onto her with his left hand, while fighting them off with his sword in his right hand, which is why the bride stands on the left, and the groom on the right.

    Although the above was common, marriage by purchase was preferred. Usually the bride would be bartered for land, social status, or political alliances, but sometimes she was exchanged for cash. The Anglo-Saxon word "wedd" meant that the groom would vow to marry the woman, but it also meant the money or barter that the groom paid the brides father. A wedding, then, literally meant the purchase of a bride for breeding purposes. The word wedding comes from a root word meaning to gamble or wager.

    There were also arranged marriages, where the grooms family told him who he was to marry, and they very rarely let him see the bride because if he didnt like her looks, he may refuse to marry her. Therefore, the father of the bride gave the bride away to the groom, who lifted the opaque veil to see her for the first time. This is also the origin of the custom of the bride and groom not seeing each other on the wedding day.

    Tying The Knot

    The expression "tie the knot" comes from Roman times when the bride wore a girdle that was tied in knots which the groom had the fun of untying.

    Engagement Rings

    Diamond engagement rings were given by medieval Italians, because of their belief that the diamond was created from the flames of love.

    Bachelor Party & Showers

    Ancient Spartan soldiers were the first to hold stag parties. The groom would feast with his male friends on the night before the wedding. There he would say goodbye to the carefree days of bachelorhood and swear continued allegiance to his comrades.

    Bridal showers were also meant to strengthen the friendships between the bride and her friends, give her moral support, and help her prepare for her marriage. The idea to give gifts is fairly new, dating from the 1890s. At one shower, the brides friend placed small gifts inside a Japanese parasol, and then opened it over the brides head so all of the presents would "shower" over her. When word of this hit the fashion pages, people were so charmed, they decided to do the same at their showers.

    Bridesmaids & Groomsmen

    The bridal party has many origins, one of which comes from the Anglo Saxon days. When the groom was about to capture his bride, he needed the help of his friends, the "bridesmen" or "brideknights". They would make sure the bride got to the church and to the grooms house afterwards. The bride also had women to help her, the "bridesmaids" or "brideswomen".

    The White Wedding Dress

    The white wedding dress was made popular by Anne of Brittany in 1499. Before that, a woman just wore her best dress. In ancient days, blue (not white) represented purity, and the bride and groom would wear a blue band around the bottom of their wedding attire, hence something blue.

    Tossing the Bouquet & Garter

    In the 14th century, having a piece of the brides clothing was thought to bring good fortune. In order to obtain a piece of this lucky attire, guests would grab at the wedding dress and tear off pieces of it, leaving the dress in tatters. In order to stop this practice, brides began throwing items at the guests. One of these items was the garter belt. Today, it is usually the Groom who removes and tosses the garter to the unmarried men in attendance, while the Bride tosses her bouquet to the unmarried women. Those that catch either item are said to be the next to marry. In some instances, it is said that they will marry each other.

    There have been a few different interpretations of the luck of the garter belt. In some cases, it was considered luck to be able to hold onto a piece of the brides clothing, and she would throw the garter. In other cases, it was lucky for the single men attending the wedding. It was a symbol, which allowed single men to share in the fortune (good luck) of the groom who would throw it.

    Wedding Rings

    It is unknown when wedding rings were first worn. They were probably made of a strong metal, like iron so that it wouldnt break easily which would have been a very bad omen. The ancient Romans believed that the vein in the third finger ran directly to the heart, so wearing the ring on that finger joined the couples hearts and destiny.

    The Wedding Cake

    Wedding just wouldnt be complete without fertility symbols, like the wedding cake. Ancient Romans would bake a cake made of wheat or barley and break it over the brides head as a symbol of her fertility. It became tradition to pile up several small cakes, one on top of the other, as high as they could, and the bride and groom would kiss over the tower and try not to knock it down. If they were successful, it meant a lifetime of prosperity. During the reign of King Charles II of England, it became customary to turn this cake into an enjoyably edible palace, iced with white sugar.

    Tying old shoes to the back of the Couples car

    The tradition of tying old shoes to the back of the Couples car stems from Tudor times when guests would throw shoes at the Bride & Groom, with great luck being bestowed on them if they or their carriage were hit!

    In Anglo Saxon times the Bride was symbolically struck with a shoe by her Groom to establish his authority. Brides would then throw shoes at their bridesmaids to see who would marry next.

    Something Old, Something New, Something Borrowed, Something Blue and a Silver Sixpence in her Shoe

    This rhyme originated in Victorian times. Something Old signifies that the Couples friends will stay with them. In one version of the tradition the Something Old was an old garter which was given to the bride by a happily married woman so that the new bride would also enjoy a happy marriage. Something New looks to the future for health, happiness and success. Something Borrowed is an opportunity for the Brides family to give her something as a token of their love (it must be returned to ensure Good Luck), and Something Blue is lucky because Blue represents fidelity and constancy. The custom began in ancient Israel where brides wore a blue ribbon in their hair to symbolize their fidelity. A sixpence was placed in the shoe to bring the couple wealth in their married life. Some brides still place a penny in their shoe during the marriage ceremony.

    Flowers

    Flowers have always been a big feature at Weddings. The Groom is supposed to wear a flower that appears in the Bridal Bouquet in his button-hole. This stems from the Medieval tradition of a Knight wearing his Ladys colors, as a declaration of his love. Each flower has its own meaning and can display a special message. Orange Blossom, for instance, signifies chastity, purity and loveliness, while red chrysanthemum means " I love you "

    The Time & The Place

    Sunday used to be the most popular wedding day, as it was the one day most people were free from work. Puritans in the Seventeenth Century put a stop to this, however, believing it was improper to be festive on the Sabbath. Today, Saturdays are the busiest, despite the rhyme.

    Monday for health, Tuesday for wealth, Wednesday best of all, Thursday for losses, Friday for crosses, Saturday for no luck at all.

    As for the time of year, the saying Marry in the month of May, and youll live to rue the day dates back to Pagan times. May, the start of summer, was dedicated to outdoor orgies (i.e. the summer festival Beltane), hardly the best way to begin married life! Queen Victoria is said to have banned her children from marrying in May, and Nineteenth Century Vicars were rushed off their feet on April 30th because Brides refused to marry during May. The sun has always been associated with sexual stimulation and, therefore future fertility. In Scotland it was traditional for the Bride to walk with the sun, proceeding from east to west on the south side of the church and then circling the Church three times sunwise for good luck.

    Married when the year is new, hell be loving, kind & true.

    When February birds do mate, You wed nor dread your fate.

    If you wed when March winds blow, joy and sorrow both youll know.

    Marry in April when you can, Joy for Maiden & for Man.

    Marry in the month of May, and youll surely rue the day.

    Marry when June roses grow, over land and sea youll go.

    Those who in July do wed, must labor for their daily bread.

    Whoever wed in August be, many a change is sure to see.

    Marry in Septembers shrine, your living will be rich and fine.

    If in October you do marry, love will come but riches tarry.

    If you wed in bleak November, only joys will come, remember.

    When December snows fall fast, marry and true love will last.

    Food for Thought

    The Wedding Cake was originally lots of little wheat cakes that were broken over the Brides head to bestow good luck and fertility. Todays three tier Wedding Cake is based on the unusual shape of the spire of Saint Brides Church in London. Traditionally the newly-weds should make the first cut to signify sharing their life. Every guest than eats a crumb to ensure good luck. And sleeping with a piece under her pillow is said to make a single woman dream of her future husband. The giving of almond favors is connected with the motto: A gift of five almonds represents health, wealth, long life, fertility and happiness. The throwing of confetti, meanwhile is an ancient fertility rite. Handfuls of grain or nuts were traditionally thrown because they are life-giving seeds. In some European countries, eggs are thrown instead.

    Get me to the Church

    Walking was thought to be the best way of getting to Church, as theres more chance of spotting lucky omens. Seeing a rainbow, having the sun shine on the Bride and meeting a black cat or a chimney sweep are all lucky.

    Bad omens include seeing a pig, hare or lizard running across the road, or spotting an open grave. Make sure the road is clear on Monks or Nuns too, they foretell

    barrenness and a life dependent on charity.

    Coming home from Church can be equally hazardous. Tradition dictates the new wife must enter her home by the main door and, to avoid bad luck, must never trip or fall - hence the custom that a bride should be carried over the threshold.

    Dressing Up

    Until the Nineteen Hundreds Brides hardly ever bought a special Wedding Dress, opting for their best outfit instead. Green was always avoided, as it was though to be unlucky. To say a girl had a green gown also implied that she was of loose morals, because her dress would be grass-stained due to rolling around in the fields! Hence Marry in Green, ashamed to be seen. White Dresses were made popular by Queen Victoria, who broke the tradition of royals marrying in Silver. Symbolizing purity and virginity, white was also thought to ward off evil spirits. Other traditions are that the bride should never make her own dress, that the final stitch should not be completed until she is departing for the Church and that she should never try on the entire outfit before the day. This was because it was felt dangerous for the Bride to count her chickens. For the same reason, a Bride should never practice signing her new name until it is legally hers, and wedding linen was marked with the Brides maiden rather than married initials. The tradition of Bridesmaids is evolved from the custom of surrounding the Bride with other richly dressed women, in order to confuse evil spirits.

    Married in White, you have chosen right,
    Married in Grey, you will go far away,
    Married in Black, you will wish yourself back,
    Married in Red, you will wish yourself dead,
    Married in Green, ashamed to be seen,
    Married in Blue, you will always be true,
    Married in Pearl, you will live in a whirl,
    Married in Yellow, ashamed of your fellow,
    Married in Brown, you will live in the town.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    My honey and I have had endless go-arounds about the origins of Christmas. He practically froths at the mouth over the arbitrary date - that it just happens to be the same date as the old Winter Solstice. I agree that the date is unlikely to be the actual anniversary of Jesus' birth, but so what? Then he froths at the mouth again. I gave him a show-stopper the other day.

    Honey, why is the hall having a "special meeting" on Christmas day this year? Isn't it to give witnesses an alternative to Chrismas? Well, that's exactly why Christmas day was picked in the first place. It gave pagans an alternative away from their pagan practices.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit