by NothingMan 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I've been taught as a J.W. that the "New Heavens" is made up of 144,000 annointed christians and the "New Earth" are those that will inhabit the Earth in a paradise. I've noticed a sundry of differing minds on this site and I would appreciate any different takes on this scripture found at Isaiah and 2 Peter Thanks still nothing
"Once divided, Nothing left to subtract"
The WTB&TS is nothing more than a pleasing fable resulting from the interpretation of a two thousand (or so) year old letter from an old man who didn't understand what he was writing as he wrote it.
There are literally hundreds of interpretations of this scripture, why should the JWs have gotten it right? They obviously couldn't get the time for the end of the world right, even though they've tried it at least a half-dozen times or more in the last hundred years.
Personally, I think you'd be much better served by intense consideration of Deut.: 18: 20-22, and by the JWs own advice to everyone but their own membership: What it is wise to examine your religion. Why should JW membership be exempt from the advise of their own organization?
Do not fear the false prophet.
I agree that the 'New Heavens'spoken of in Isaiah is Jehovah's ruling govenment, and the 'New Earth' is the Kingdom on earth.
_______________
Less Religion and more Jesus!
Good question numbnuts,Ive aways wondered my self why if it says there is a new heavens and a new EARTH,what this new earth is?
And when.
Revelation 21:1- "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."
Remember the first world passed away in a great flood- deluge of water but; the earth is still here.
The Bible states that the earth is here forever. (Ecclesiastes 1:4, Psalm 78:69, 104:5, Isaiah 45:18 says; formed it to be inhabitated. The planet is always going to be here.
Thus the scriptures you refer to are using symbolic language.
Earth is the society of mankind.
Heaven is the higher powers unseen to man. Satan and his angels.
Sea is the irreligious element of society. The sea class.
A new heaven under Christ and the 144,000 and the Great Multitude.
A new earth or society of righteousness.
But a sea class no longer exists.
When a verse seems unreal consider the symbolic application in interpretation.
Steam Psalm 50:5
Steam's response is evidence that doctrine hard pounded into one's head is there for a good while. If you believe in the Bible as the word of a diety, then sure, his take is about as good as any. If you are more interested in the basic and more important question of who God is and what does he do for kicks, then this sort of question is rather unimportant.
Clearly it is for you. You seem to think that if there is something more reasonable out there, then this might be false. That doesn't have to be the case for this to be false. Look at the source. Jehovah used to live in the center of the galaxy on a planet. So, sure, this sounds good. Keep em wide open and do some reading to see how far out there these fanatics go, then measure credibiltiy.
W.Once
I don't agree with all the Steam said but I do agree that in the bible the "new heavens and new earth" does not mean the literal heaven and earth will be destroyed and replaced. As steam points out the bible says "the earth will endure forever". If so then how can the heavens and earth pass away?
When a verse seems to be contradicting another one - we need to do more research. Here is a verse from the OT that shows it is merely the order of things that will pass away. I copied this from the NIV bible: Isaiah 65:17
17 "Behold, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
Notice here Jehovah is says he will create new heavens and earth and the "former things" will not be remembered? He does not say the former heaven and earth will not be remembered but rather "former things". Most bible scholars agree that in this verse former things means "former order of things". There is a footenote in the NIV bible that supports this and this is why I cited this verse from this bible.
More support is given to this view when you read the whole chapter of Isaiah 65. In this bible book a contrast is being made between many things such as the state of Jerusalem now to their future state. Sorrow for God's people now, turns to joy in the future. People in this order of things build homes but cannot afford to live in them, turns to building and having occupancy. Also in this order we toil for food and plant but don't get to eat our share, turns to planting and eating. Do you see the pattern?
All the things mentioned in this chapter have nothing to do with the literal heavens and earth but rather the world system and governments we are currently living under. And this chapter shows how in the future God will intervene to make a new order and correct the problems we have to endure today while still living under the old order of things. Hope this helps, Lilly
Jehovah used to live in the center of the galaxy on a planet
Once, this is the first time I heard this. Can you fill in more explanation?
My Thanks to Lovely Lil for her supportiing statements.
Steam Psalm 50:5
I've been taught as a J.W. that the "New Heavens" is made up of 144,000 annointed christians and the "New Earth" are those that will inhabit the Earth in a paradise
English Standard Version (ESV)
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
English Standard Version (ESV)
16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
English Standard Version (ESV)
11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
Actually, there will come a day, about 6 billion years from now, when the sun will explode. I think it's a safe bet the earth will go with it.
Revelation is telling us of our higher self, of which the earth, a sentient being, also has one. The only way to understand this is to study metaphysical science. This is ancient knowledge, found in the the kabbalistic Tree of Life, which explains how everything unfolds from the Absolute in stages. Sort of like TV channels. We live on channel 2, but the new earth is on channel 4. A shift in consciousness is required for the ascension. The old earth is "dissolved", since is has served its evolutionary purpose and is no longer needed. Once we understand the delusion caused by reading the Bible literally, its deeper meaning shines forth.
I would recommend "A New Earth", by Eckhardt Tolle. It explains it quite well.
